{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3122", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3122, "subject": "Green ain't Lune", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-04-05T06:47:25+00:00", "last": "2002-04-09T16:58:28+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-04-05T06:47:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Green ain't Lune", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My excuse for missing this is that it is only my second reading of RTTW, and\nI wasn't looking for it the first time through. On page 163 Silkhorn is\nanswering Pig's question about what he had been thinking:\n\n \"The three whorls. Two large and low, by which I mean near the Short\nSun. This one near the stars. I don't know whether Green's bigger than Blue,\nor Blue's bigger than Green; but both are much bigger than this whorl we're\nin, the Long Sun Whorl.\"\n\nNow, it's true that he gives no absolute answer to the question of which\nbody is larger, Blue or Green, but the fact that he has been on both worlds,\nseen both from a lander in space, and was unable to distinguish one from the\nother by size indicates, at the very least, that there is little difference\nbetween them with regard to size. Earth is about four times the size of the\nmoon; Urth is presumably four times the size of Lune. Blue cannot be four\ntimes the size of Green, or someone would have noticed.\n\nAlso, the Green-born inhumi would have had a hell of a time flying around on\nBlue with all those extra gravities dragging them down. And if it was hard\nfor them to escape Green's gravity to hunt on Blue, as Jahlee indicated,\nthen it would be just about impossible to escape Blue's and return to Green,\nif Blue had much higher gravity.\n\nDoes this finally kill the Blue=Urth idea?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2002-04-06T06:19:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Green ain't Lune", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Roy C. Lackey\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My excuse for missing this is that it is only my second reading of RTTW, and\nI wasn't looking for it the first time through. On page 163 Silkhorn is\nanswering Pig's question about what he had been thinking:\n\n \"The three whorls. Two large and low, by which I mean near the Short\nSun. This one near the stars. I don't know whether Green's bigger than Blue,\nor Blue's bigger than Green; but both are much bigger than this whorl we're\nin, the Long Sun Whorl.\"\n\nNow, it's true that he gives no absolute answer to the question of which\nbody is larger, Blue or Green, but the fact that he has been on both worlds,\nseen both from a lander in space, and was unable to distinguish one from the\nother by size indicates, at the very least, that there is little difference\nbetween them with regard to size. Earth is about four times the size of the\nmoon; Urth is presumably four times the size of Lune. Blue cannot be four\ntimes the size of Green, or someone would have noticed.\n\nAlso, the Green-born inhumi would have had a hell of a time flying around on\nBlue with all those extra gravities dragging them down. And if it was hard\nfor them to escape Green's gravity to hunt on Blue, as Jahlee indicated,\nthen it would be just about impossible to escape Blue's and return to Green,\nif Blue had much higher gravity.\n\nDoes this finally kill the Blue=Urth idea?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tNo, because 1) Lune shows signs of Urthlike gravity in TBOTNS, and 2)\nSilkhorn's statement could be an acknowledgement of the varying apparent\nsizes of the bodies during his travels on and around them. \n\n\tThe gap between Green and Blue could perhaps be bridged at close\napproach by an expansion of the atmospheres due to tides. This could\nallow the atmospheres to mingle, but they would also be attenuated so\nthat flying through the thinned air is very difficult even in the lower\neffective gravity between the worlds. " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson\nHow Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789\n\"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy.\" -Cpt Law\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-04-08T09:44:52+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Green ain't Lune", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 06/04/2002 07:19:41 Jeff Wilson wrote:\n No, because 1) Lune shows signs of Urthlike gravity in TBOTNS," }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Where? I can only recall the picture cleaning and a reference to Voladus\npossibly hiding in \"the forests of Lune\".\n\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-04-08T20:08:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Green ain't Lune", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- \"Roy C. Lackey\" wrote:\nMy excuse for missing this is that it is only my second reading of RTTW,\nand\nI wasn't looking for it the first time through. On page 163 Silkhorn is\nanswering Pig's question about what he had been thinking:\n\n \"The three whorls. Two large and low, by which I mean near the Short\nSun. This one near the stars. I don't know whether Green's bigger than\nBlue,\nor Blue's bigger than Green; but both are much bigger than this whorl\nwe're\nin, the Long Sun Whorl.\"\n\nNow, it's true that he gives no absolute answer to the question of which\nbody is larger, Blue or Green, but the fact that he has been on both\nworlds,\nseen both from a lander in space, and was unable to distinguish one from\nthe\nother by size indicates, at the very least, that there is little\ndifference\nbetween them with regard to size. Earth is about four times the size of\nthe\nmoon; Urth is presumably four times the size of Lune. Blue cannot be\nfour\ntimes the size of Green, or someone would have noticed." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think that follows. If you see planets from space, you\ncan't tell which is bigger unless you know which one is closer, and\nit's hard to see how Horn could have had any information about his\ndistances from Blue and Green." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, the Green-born inhumi would have had a hell of a time flying\naround on\nBlue with all those extra gravities dragging them down. And if it was\nhard\nfor them to escape Green's gravity to hunt on Blue, as Jahlee indicated,\nthen it would be just about impossible to escape Blue's and return to\nGreen,\nif Blue had much higher gravity.\n\nDoes this finally kill the Blue=Urth idea?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One of the few things I think is clear is that Green, Blue, and Urth\nhave about the same gravity. If Green is the moon, it must have been\nterraformed even as to the gravity (which of course is possible and\nmight even have been a necessary part of the terraforming, but which\nthere's no direct evidence on).\n\nMy latest theory about what Wolfe may have had in mind: Blue and\nGreen are a double planet orbiting each other with a period of six\nyears (could someone remind me of the cite for that period?), and\norbiting the Short Sun with a much longer period. They would have\nto be very far from the Short Sun, which therefore would have to\nbe many times brighter than our sun, but I suspect it's possible.\n\nThis would be consistent with Silkhorn's comment (when he tells us\nthe Gaonese date, somewhere in the first half of OBW) that different\ntowns use different years, which is hard to reconcile with Blue's\nhaving a period of about an Earth/Whorl year--you'd think they could\nall pretty much agree.\n\nThe only objection I can see to this theory is that \"conjunction\"\nwould be a misnomer for \"closest approach\", but I don't think\n\"conjunction\" can be the right word anyway. Are there objections? \nHas someone suggested this before?\n\nJerry" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-04-09T07:35:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Green ain't Lune", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Jerry Friedman \nDate: Monday, April 08, 2002 3:08 PM\nMy latest theory about what Wolfe may have had in mind: Blue and\nGreen are a double planet orbiting each other with a period of six\nyears (could someone remind me of the cite for that period?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"We know that conjunctions with Green occur every sixth year.\" (OBW, 182)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This would be consistent with Silkhorn's comment (when he tells us\nthe Gaonese date, somewhere in the first half of OBW) that different\ntowns use different years, which is hard to reconcile with Blue's\nhaving a period of about an Earth/Whorl year--you'd think they could\nall pretty much agree." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"There is argument about the length of the year here, and how well it agrees\nwith the year we knew in the Long Sun Whorl, but the difference must be\nslight if there is any . . .\" (OBW, 129)\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-04-09T16:58:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Green ain't Lune", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- \"Roy C. Lackey\" wrote:\nFrom: Jerry Friedman \nDate: Monday, April 08, 2002 3:08 PM" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "My latest theory about what Wolfe may have had in mind: Blue and\nGreen are a double planet orbiting each other with a period of six\nyears (could someone remind me of the cite for that period?)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"We know that conjunctions with Green occur every sixth year.\" (OBW,\n182)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "This would be consistent with Silkhorn's comment (when he tells us\nthe Gaonese date, somewhere in the first half of OBW) that different\ntowns use different years, which is hard to reconcile with Blue's\nhaving a period of about an Earth/Whorl year--you'd think they could\nall pretty much agree." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"There is argument about the length of the year here, and how well it\nagrees\nwith the year we knew in the Long Sun Whorl, but the difference must be\nslight if there is any . . .\" (OBW, 129)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for both, Roy! The second one seems to shoot down my \nlong-period-satellite theory--and leaves me again with no idea of what\nWolfe might have meant." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jerry Friedman" } ] } ] }