Subject: (urth) Bigger Lune

From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 06:01:00 +0000

Roy, unfortunately, you are missing the small detail at the end of Return to 
the Whorl where Hoof looks up in the sky and claims that Lune (he calls it 
"Green") is much bigger than Green ever is in the sky (and at 30,000 leagues 
distant at conjunction, this is much closer than the moon ever is 
(approximately 80,000 leagues in our time)) [even though the moon is much much 
closer in Rudesind's time according to the Shadow of the Torturer - we don't 
know HOW much closer - enough to compensate?].  I already commented on this. 
This means, if they are at equal distances, Lune would have to be either 
closer than 30,000 leagues or much much BIGGER than Green. This means Green 
should even have LESS gravity than the moon, maybe. Read that chapter again if 
you don't believe me.  Let's face it, arguing about the size is pretty 
fruitless without the sizes in real units; we are just guessing.
I don't think this really puts the nail in the coffin for Blue=Ushas.  
Remember how at one point the narrator says we only have to think of three 
whorls to solve the mystery of the inhumu?  Then why does Juganu claim "We are 
everywhere!"  I believe that the previous statement can still apply - and how 
do we reconcile them?  By making only three whorls total.  Oh well.  You will 
never believe me.  That's cool.  No hard feelings. 
Marc Aramini
PS - For Dan'l: Does my name lend itself easily to the latin "Marcus 
Araminius"?  My friends used to call me that a lot, too.  They used to throw 
in my middle name Anthony as Antonius, too.  I think it's pretty cool, myself.
 Have a good night, everybody!

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:25:07 +0000

Marc wrote:
Date: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:01 AM

>>Roy, unfortunately, you are missing the small detail at the end of Return
to the Whorl where Hoof looks up in the sky and claims that Lune (he calls
it "Green") is much bigger than Green ever is in the sky<<

He doesn't say that it is "much bigger", nor was he looking at Lune. He was
on Blue and looking at Green. What he says is: "Our Green is not as big as
theirs, but ours was plenty bright." (366) So, Lune appears bigger to Hoof
than Green does when viewed under similar conditions, but that hardly makes
Lune "much bigger" than Green. As you have noted, Lune was closer to Urth in
Sev's day than Moon is to Earth in ours, which is sufficient reason for us,
the readers, to account for it appearing larger in Urth's sky than it does
now. But Hoof doesn't know that--he can't. If Hoof was viewing the same
object (Lune/Green) from the same platform (Urth/Blue), as you contend, it
should appear to him as the same size--everything else being equal. What
isn't equal, at least for Green and Blue, is the six-year cycle of
convergence/divergence. That Lune looks larger to him indicates that either
Lune was closer to Urth in Sev's day than Green comes to Blue even at
conjunction, or he wasn't looking at the same object from the same place.

>> (and at 30,000 leagues
distant at conjunction, this is much closer than the moon ever is
(approximately 80,000 leagues in our time)) [even though the moon is much
much closer in Rudesind's time according to the Shadow of the Torturer - we
don't know HOW much closer - enough to compensate?].  I already commented on
this. This means, if they are at equal distances, Lune would have to be
either closer than 30,000 leagues or much much BIGGER than Green. This means
Green should even have LESS gravity than the moon, maybe.<<

Even if we ignore the rest and stipulate that Green is Lune, how would the
inhumi ever be able to overcome what for them would be 6 times (or more, if
you had your way) the gravity they grew up with, and be able to fly back to
Green from Blue, in order to breed?

-Roy

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