{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3125", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3125, "subject": "brief comment", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-04-07T04:40:47+00:00", "last": "2002-04-08T19:55:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2002-04-07T04:40:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) brief comment", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy, no big deal, but there IS a scene when he actually is looking at the moon \nand commenting: \n\"Green came up, bigger and brighter than we ever see it on Blue. Or want to, \neither.\" (pg 714 in SFBC BOTSS, chapter 17)\n\nHe is talking about Lune here. We are saying the same thing. I'm kind of \nintrigued by the recent idea that Lune could have near urth gravity. \nBut doesn't the fact that at 30,000 leagues Green is still not as big as Lune \nindicate that Green can't be much bigger? I mean, Lune would have to be \nreally damned close if Green really were larger at all, and it can't be THAT \nclose.\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org" }, "date": "2002-04-07T05:04:30+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) brief comment", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc,\n\nI'm afraid that your uncritical acceptance\nof the 30,000-league figure for Green's\ndistance from Blue may be a bit dangerous;\nafter all, Wolfe's characters make mistakes,\nconceal the truth, and lie outright all the\ntime. This figure is given at second hand,\nproduced by a culture that's had only one\ngeneration of planetside life--the estimate\nmay be influenced by scales within the\nWhorl, where the skylands are only twice as\nfar away as the Long Sun, and city lights\nin those regions are evidently visible at\nnight.\n\nLikewise Juganu's comment, \"We are every-\nwhere\": we don't know whether it's a self-\naggrandizing boast, a calculated statement\nmeant to dishearten his listeners, or an\nunthinking assumption. Is Juganu even\naware of Urth before Horn enlists his help\nto travel there?\n\nMark Millman\n(Nacre)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, maa32 wrote:\nRoy, no big deal, but there IS\na scene when he actually is\nlooking at the moon and com-\nmenting:\n\n\"Green came up, bigger\nand brighter than we\never see it on Blue.\nOr want to, either.\"\n(pg 714 in SFBC BOTSS,\nchapter 17)\n\nHe is talking about Lune here.\nWe are saying the same thing.\nI'm kind of intrigued by the\nrecent idea that Lune could\nhave near urth gravity. But\ndoesn't the fact that at 30,000\nleagues Green is still not as\nbig as Lune indicate that Green\ncan't be much bigger? I mean,\nLune would have to be really\ndamned close if Green really\nwere larger at all, and it\ncan't be THAT close.\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-04-08T19:46:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) brief comment", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Date: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:41 PM" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Marc wrote:\nRoy, no big deal, but there IS a scene when he actually is looking at the\nmoon and commenting:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Green came up, bigger and brighter than we ever see it on Blue. Or want\nto, either.\" (pg 714 in SFBC BOTSS, chapter 17)\n\nHe is talking about Lune here. We are saying the same thing. I'm kind of\nintrigued by the recent idea that Lune could have near urth gravity.<<\n\nPlease don't get started on that! As mantis has already hinted, if there is\nany evidence to support that idea, it's extratextual. No scene, directly or\nindirectly, takes place on Lune in the Urth Cycle, and there's not a word in\nthe text about Lune's gravity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But doesn't the fact that at 30,000 leagues Green is still not as big as\nLune indicate that Green can't be much bigger? I mean, Lune would have to\nbe" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "really damned close if Green really were larger at all, and it can't be THAT\nclose.<<\n\nI could offer the feeble excuse that, on the occasion you cited above, Lune\nhad just risen and therefore Urth's atmosphere magnified Hoof's view of it,\njust as Moon looks bigger near the horizon than at zenith on Earth, and Hoof\nhad limited occasions to observe relative sizes, but I don't know that that\nwould be sufficient reason for his blanket statements that Lune appears\nlarger than Green.\n\nSilkhorn's statement, cited earlier, that implied there wasn't much\ndifference in size between Blue and Green, coupled with these recent\narguments that seem to indicate that Green must be close in size to Lune,\nleads to the conclusion that all three bodies are about the same size. Add\nto that my observations about the problems a much higher gravity on Blue\nwould present for the inhumi, and where does that lead to?: That Blue and\nGreen are about the same size and have about the same gravity, and both\ncorrespond to the size and gravity of Lune. That Blue is therefore the size\nof Lune, which means that Blue can't possibly be Urth. That Silkhorn & Co.\nwoke up on Urth and just didn't notice that they weighed six times as much\nas they were used to.\n\nNo, I can't account for the apparent discrepancies in the text, or the\napparent violations of the laws of physics. I just don't see any good reason\nto believe that Blue is Urth/Ushas.\n\nI can't endorse your theories about trees/inhumi/Neighbors/people either,\nbut I will concede that there _is_ something odd going on wrt trees in the\nSS series--I just don't know what. Here's one you haven't mentioned before.\nNear the end of the second chapter of RTTW, Pig is seized by both fear and\nwonder when he discovers that he is in the midst of a wood but can't touch a\ntree or be touched by one. It is his proximity to Silkhorn that seems to\naccount for it, but he doesn't know that.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-04-08T19:55:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) brief comment", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nI can't endorse your theories about trees/inhumi/Neighbors/people either,\nbut I will concede that there _is_ something odd going on wrt trees in the\nSS series--I just don't know what. Here's one you haven't mentioned before.\nNear the end of the second chapter of RTTW, Pig is seized by both fear and\nwonder when he discovers that he is in the midst of a wood but can't touch a\ntree or be touched by one. It is his proximity to Silkhorn that seems to\naccount for it, but he doesn't know that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Could this be that he's following Silkhorn, who is using his\nNeighbor-given ability to find paths through bushes?\n\nAlthough it's possible that this works because the trees are moving to\nmake a path for Horn, the way it's described in the text it seems more\nlike some sort of extraordinary perception Horn has that enables him to\nsee the one clear path that most people can't find.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] } ] }