{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/313",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 313,
    "subject": "Free will in BOtNS",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1998-01-29T17:35:39+00:00",
    "last": "1998-01-29T18:33:00+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0006-0460@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Wells",
        "address": "adw at ovum.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-01-29T18:33:00+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Free will in BOtNS",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "(apologies for the length of this - I'm rarely able to post here)\n\nRecent discussions have raised this fascinating subject (Free Will in   \nBOtNS), which has always intrigued me. The (apparently radical)   \nmanipulation of Severian's life by outside forces seems to me (an atheist   \ndeterminist) a brilliant metaphor for the hardest test which life throws   \nat us - the realization that some or all of our \"Free Will\" may be   \nentirely illusory. But it sits uneasily with the view I would expect   \ngiven knowledge of Wolfe's spiritual orientation. Especially as   \nSeverian's actions are Judged for the salvation of all mankind(*) - this   \nseems a bit of a cheat since arguably the judge was pulling the strings   \nall along (I am trivializing the argument, but I'm sure you see what I   \nmean).\n\nIn similar vein, I have often toyed with the idea of analyzing Severian's   \n\"deaths\" through the series. There seem to be at least four types of   \n(near-)demise:\n 1) Severian _really_ dies in the timeline we are reading about, and   \nneither supernatural intervention nor the Claw/New Sun can save him. (But   \nthe only time this happens(?) he is resurrected as an aquastor (eilodon?   \nI can never recall the difference) so that he can save mankind after his   \nown death...)\n 2) Severian \"really dies\" in the timeline, but is supernaturally saved   \nby the Claw/New Sun. (e.g. shot by the Big Gun in the Citadel, the avern   \nduel)\n 3) Severian nearly dies in the timeline, but is saved by the natural   \nintervention of a supernaturally-well-informed being (e.g. saved by the   \nUndine in Ch 1).\n 4) Severian nearly dies in the timeline, but is saved by natural good   \nluck/skill/heroism, etc. There are surprisingly few examples of this -   \ngiven that such hero-escapes-from-peril stuff is the very basis of most   \n\"fantasy\" fiction - but Severian's besting of Typhon is a spectacular   \nexample (also his escape from the notules and from death in battle, I   \nguess). But I imagine that if Severian had failed to heroically survive   \nthese, they would have been \"converted\" to a type 3)...\n\nBut what really puzzles me is how the \"Apu Punchau experience\" fits into   \nthis...\n\nnewt\n\n(*) I was initially completely wowed by the idea that Severian wasn't   \nactually going to be \"tested\", but simply called to account for the   \nactions of his life. What a fascinating concept. It took me an amazingly   \nlong time to figure out where this idea came from (yes, OK, stop laughing   \nout there - but I simply don't think about religious ideas on a day to   \nday basis)."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0006-0461@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "CRCulver",
        "address": "crculver at aol.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-01-29T17:35:39+00:00",
      "subject": "Re:  (urth) Free will in BOtNS",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0006-0460@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "David Wells said:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "But what really puzzles me is how the \"Apu Punchau experience\" fits into\nthis...<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "     Apu-Punchau was the Severian of the first \"iteration\" of Briah, before\nthe timeline was altered. (See _Citadel_ chapter XXXVIII, paragraph 5). I've\nnever been adept at explaining temporal mechanics, so I hope you can get all\nyou want to know out of the BotNS text itself.\n\nChristopher R. Culver <crculver at aol.com>\nhttp://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html\n------------------------------------------------\n\"Ignorance, that light of fools steers a wayward path\"\n-Brendan Perry"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}