{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/315",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 315,
    "subject": "Undines, Predestination, Time",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1998-01-29T18:06:51+00:00",
    "last": "1998-01-30T15:06:38+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0006-0463@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David_Lebling",
        "address": "david_lebling at avid.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-01-29T18:06:51+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Undines, Predestination, Time",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Xury,\n\nI find it easier to believe that the undine saved Severian as part of an\neffort to (if you will excuse the expression) lure him to the \"dark side\nof the force.\"  All the exemplars of evil (except for Agia and the\nSorcerors) try to win Severian over to their side, not kill him.  The\nundines (or is it the same undine each time?) are particularly\npersistent in this regard.\n\nI still think (mantis' opinion aside) that the \"original\" Severian\ndidn't succeed in bringing the New Sun.  On the other hand, even after\nmore rereadings than I remember, I still don't have it straight exactly\nhow many Severians there are, and how many times he dies, and what the\noriginal timeline looks like.  Was Apu-Punchau always Severian?  How did\nSeverian end up buried in the tomb below the Citadel?  How much time\nelapsed between Typhon's reign and Severian's?  I suppose it is only to\nbe expected that a novel in which time is a major player should be\nsomewhat confusing in this regard.  I accept, but I do not understand...\n\n     -vizcacha\n     (david_lebling at avid.com)"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0006-0465@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "CRCulver",
        "address": "crculver at aol.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-01-30T15:06:38+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: Undines, Predestination, Time",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0006-0463@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Vizcacha said:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I still think (mantis' opinion aside) that the \"original\" Severian\ndidn't succeed in bringing the New Sun.<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "     I don't think so either. Why would Tzadkiel need to rework the timeline\nso that *Severian would live* to bring the New Sun if it had been brought in\nthe past iteration?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "How much time elapsed between Typhon's reign and Severian's?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "     Mantis has said that about a chiliad (1000 Urth years) passed between\nthe reign of Ymar and the Reign of Severian. Typhon was the last of the\nMonarchs, Ymar was one of the first, or the first, of the autarchs. Thus,\nabout 1000 (Urth) years have passed between Typhon's reign and Sev's reign."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "How did Severian end up buried in the tomb below the Citadel?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "     I hope this question may be answered in the Book of the Short Sun.\nHowever, Gene Wolfe used the word 'cameo' when he mentioned Sev and Merryn\nare going to be in it, so I wonder if Severian's *death* will be told of in\nthe BotSS.\n\nChristopher R. Culver <crculver at aol.com>\nhttp://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html\n------------------------------------------------\n\"Ignorance, that light of fools steers a wayward path\"\n-Brendan Perry"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}