{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3164", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3164, "subject": "Belated thoughts RE: (urth) Shadowy reflections on an amazing", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-04-17T23:56:44+00:00", "last": "2002-04-19T19:20:00+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-04-17T23:56:44+00:00", "subject": "Belated thoughts RE: (urth) Shadowy reflections on an amazing", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nigel observed:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Severian in some sense takes on the role of Christ when he resists\nTyphon's three-fold temptations, but as the author has insisted\nelsewhere, Severian is not Jesus..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "and I insist that this is a case where the author either is -- I was\ngoing to say \"lying\" but let me say instead \"being deliberatly disingenuous\"\n-- or doesn't know what he's talking about. Or maybe some combination of\nthe two. And it doesn't start with the temptation in the desert.\n\nI mean, come on: his career starts with baptism and ends with \nresurrection. Before he meets Typhon, he raises the dead, heals the\nsick turns water into wine, tames wild beasts, and (I think a case\ncould be made) banishes demons. Not to mention coming back from the\ndead repeatedly, telling parables (what _do_ you think the stories \nin the Book of Urth and Sky are?), etc., etc., etc." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-04-19T15:04:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: Belated thoughts RE: (urth) Shadowy reflections on an amazing", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 4/17/02 6:56 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes at ddanehy at siebel.com wrote:\nNigel observed:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Severian in some sense takes on the role of Christ when he resists\nTyphon's three-fold temptations, but as the author has insisted\nelsewhere, Severian is not Jesus..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "and I insist that this is a case where the author either is -- I was\ngoing to say \"lying\" but let me say instead \"being deliberatly disingenuous\"\n-- or doesn't know what he's talking about. Or maybe some combination of\nthe two. And it doesn't start with the temptation in the desert.\n\nI mean, come on: his career starts with baptism and ends with\nresurrection. Before he meets Typhon, he raises the dead, heals the\nsick turns water into wine, tames wild beasts, and (I think a case\ncould be made) banishes demons. Not to mention coming back from the\ndead repeatedly, telling parables (what _do_ you think the stories\nin the Book of Urth and Sky are?), etc., etc., etc." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, he isn't literally Jesus: he's not God, and his return isn't the\nSecond Coming of Christ (and I've never understood how the events of UotNS\nare to be reconciled with the Christian eschatological scheme). But I agree\nthat the similarities between Severian and Jesus go far beyond \"he's a\nChristian, and Christians are supposed to imitate Christ.\"\n\nWhen I read UotNS, it seemed to me that the portions of the book where\nSeverian is the original Conciliator might have been Wolfe's attempt to\nimagine why someone might behave as Jesus does in the Gospel of Mark\n(reluctant to perform miracles, and telling those he's cured not to say\nanything about it).\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-04-19T19:20:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: Belated thoughts RE: (urth) Shadowy reflections on an amazing", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, James Jordan wrote:\n As for how all this fits with conventional Christian eschatology; \nwell, it does not have to. The events are in the midst of history, not at \nits full end. But the Bible repeatedly uses Flood language to refer to \ninvading armies and other similar disasters, and also relates the Flood to \nbaptism. Thus, Wolfe can have a Flood-event in the midst of history, which \nis a judgment on an old Ur-world and also a baptism of that world, ushering \nin a new Ushas world." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Which raises the question again, are there no more rainbows on\nUrth? (Other than the one Severian pulls butterflies out of, that is.)\n\n-Rostrum" } ] } ] }