Subject: (urth) Numerological Wolfe

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:16:02 +0000

I made a numerological reflection relevant to 5HC: 

> "666," the Number of the Beast, is "the number of a man." Kaballistically,
> 6 is a man and 3 is God; 666 is Man making a God of himself.)

> In Rev. 13 the number is six hundred, sixty, six, not three 6s. A 
> lot of people are confused on this, simply because we say "sixsixsix"
> and the English could be read either way. 

Well, yeah. The Arabic numeral system simply wasn't around when John
had his vision. Still, I misdoubt whether the standard translations
(like KJV's "six hundred, three score and six") are any better reflections
of the original Gk than a simple 666. I frankly find it very unlikely that
St John in writing this down was _un_aware of the hexaplicity of the three
components of his number.

I wasn't really familiar with the whole Solomon thing -- but I guess it
works in context.

Whatever meaning the number may have had to St John -- I think that is an 
entirely different question from what it may have meant to Gene Wolfe in 
the early-to-mid-'70s. And certainly it seems that much of the activity
at 666 Saltimbanque is oriented toward man deifying himself. 

And, really, given 
o the popular association of the number with a certain Caesar,
o the identity of GW's favorite fictional detective,
and
o the family's "real" last name
I find it extremely unlikely that GW would miss the opportunity to 
make _that_ association...

H'mmm. I have a couple of kind of separate things to say about 5HC. I'll
make them in a separate post or two.

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From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:17:03 +0000

>components of his number.

         Not to disagree, but just to provide a bit more for anyone interested:
         The text of Rev. 13:18 is not "hex, hex, hex," (6,6,6) but 
"hexakosioi hexekonta hex" (600,60,6). But of course you are right: Three 
sixes is significant, since man was made on the sixth day. Goliath is 6 
cubits and a span high, and his spearhead weight 600 shekels (1 Sam. 17). 
Nebuchadnezzar's idol in Daniel 3 has dimensions of 60x6 cubits. 
Numerologically, 666 is a climactic extension of this theme. Also, 666 is 
the triangular of 36 (6x6). So, sixes abound in this number.
         What we see in all this, and climactically in 666, is man's 
attempt make himself god by his own bootstraps. He never gets to God's gift 
of sabbath ("7") -- God's elevation of him by grace into "little godhood," 
as another line of posts has been discussing. He just keeps multiplying 
himself over and over. This is pretty much a standard thematic 
understanding of these multiplied sixes, and of course it fits perfectly 
with the first 5HC novella -- as you say: man deifying himself.
         I doubt if Wolfe made the connection to Solomon (though that's 
what any synagogue-trained 1st c. Jew hearing the passage would first think 
of), and I agree that Wolfe may have enjoyed thinking of Nero in this 
connection, since that is a frequently encountered specific understanding 
of 666 as a code. That would be secondary, though. The multiplication of 6s 
never getting to 7 is the more basic thematic link.

Nutria

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:23:49 +0000

>          What we see in all this, and climactically in 666, is
> man's attempt make himself god by his own bootstraps. He never
> gets to God's gift of sabbath ("7") -- God's elevation of him by
> grace into "little godhood," as another line of posts has been
> discussing. He just keeps multiplying himself over and over. 

And now we see another significance of "Number Five." By this 
generation (which probably isn't the fifth at all; "that number is 
either far too small or too large"), the Wolfes are not even able 
to make it as far as Number Six ("I am not a prisoner...I am a free 
man!"); they are no longer quite human...

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From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:01:45 +0000

>--Blattid

Good thot. Either that, or that an evil No. 6 is coming someday, which is 
how I've taken the last sentence.
         BTW, thematically this feature might be linked to Wolfe's story 
"To the Seventh" in *Stranger Travellers.* Of course, the seventh here 
refers to chess, and when the pawn gets to the eighth after dying on the 
seventh, he becomes a Queen (the bride of Christ). Still, 6 as inadequate 
and stuck in time versus 7 as fulfilling and completing humanity -- the two 
stories make a nice complement. The one thing the "Wolfes" in 5HC refuse to 
do is "die" and be truly transformed.

Nutria

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