{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/320", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 320, "subject": "Let'sDoTheTimeWarpAgn!", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-01-30T23:27:00+00:00", "last": "1998-01-31T21:22:11+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.geis.com" }, "date": "1998-01-30T23:27:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth)Let'sDoTheTimeWarpAgn!", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #9589850 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET02#\n\nnewt,\n\nRight, like that. Me, I like to see the Destiny balanced on a\nrazor's edge with Free Will. Peter Wright sees it more as Total\nManipulation (\"Destiny by Overlord Design\" 100%).\n\nChristopher,\n\nApu-Punchau, in light of the events in URTH, was either:\n\n(1) originally just a legend (i.e., no physical body) until Severian\nstepped into the role; or\n\n(2) was always the post-deluge Severian.\n\nThe same can be said of the Conciliator, of course.\n\nThis amounts to the situation in Moorcock's BEHOLD THE MAN, but\nwithout the time traveller seeing an obviously incapable model (a\nretarded child) before being thrust into the role himself. (Unless\n. . . say, you don't suppose that Ceryx the Necromancer of URTH was in\nany way, shape, or form the original \"historical\" Conciliator? After\nall, he could raise the dead! Whoo, this would make the Sorcerers at\nthe foot of Mount Typhon the =real= heirs of the original Conciliator!)\n\nvizcacha,\n\nOf course you don't have to believe me, but if the first Severian\n=didn't= bring the New Sun, then what is powering the Claw and why\ndoes Severian only have his super powers when line-of-sight to the\nWhite Fountain is unobstructed? \n\nIf you want to answer, \"The White Fountain, which powers all of\nSeverian's magic, is in transit because the second Severian has (for\nreasons that remain utterly arbitrary or obscure) become predestined\nto bring it\" then I will agree with you if you also say that \"The\nfirst Severian is being as radically rewritten (if by nothing else\nthan the actions of the second Severian in response to new obstacles\nbeing thrown up) as the second Severian is, until that magical moment\nin the text (maybe when second Severian triggers Juturna, the one and\nalways undine, to save apprentice Severian) where the distinction\nbetween the two Severians collapses and there is only Severian.\"\n\nMeanwhile we've got two probability wave futures hanging in\nsuspension, the Ushas future and the Ragnarok future, with time\ntravellers from both coming back to further complicate matters! Yet\nthere is an Absolute Time which is progressing--there is a point of\nNow which will determine which future comes and which future goes\n(time does not \"stand still\" for the time travellers). That point\nwould seem to be the actual arrival of the White Fountain. And\nyet--and yet . . . !\n\nWhen dealing with these hairy time traveling deals, maybe it would be\nbest to reduce everything to \"Back to the Future\" props and\nsensibilities?\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "CRCulver", "address": "crculver at aol.com" }, "date": "1998-01-31T21:22:11+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth)Let'sDoTheTimeWarpAgn!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mantis asked:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "[then,] why does Severian only have his super powers when line-of-sight to\nthe White Fountain is unobstructed?<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " This evening, whilst reading a copy of _Shadow and Claw_ up at the local\nbookstore, I was surprised to see a rather interesting and prophetic comment\nby the the Cumaean:\n\nHildegrin (I think): Then what hampers us?\n\nCumaean: Nothing, the star is in the ascendant.\n\n Seems to me like the Cumaean knew for sure that the New Sun would come,\nand maybe she knew Severian would have powers as it was rising, perhaps\nbecause she knew/assumed that the Apu-Puncahu of the Stone Town was the\npost-deluge Severian. As I read deeper and deeper into the Book, I find more\nlines of this sort, that are indeed easy to miss.\n\nChristopher R. Culver \nhttp://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html\n------------------------------------------------\n\"Ignorance, that light of fools steers a wayward path\"\n-Brendan Perry" } ] } ] }