Prehistoric Starcrossers

They certainly leave a hint in the story. The Old Wise One talks of a "starcrosser", and later he seems to be remembering the actual splashdown itself: "'Like a spark from the echoless vault of emptiness,' the Old Wise One continued, 'the shining shape slipped steaming into the sea.'" Notice the poetic, alliterative language the Old Wise One uses here, and nowhere else. It's as if he's quoting some epic oral poem along the lines of Homer. Another clue, I think, that there's a link between the ancient civilisations of Earth and the Annese. As for the archaeological record, who says they didn't leave a trace there? We're talking about what may be the crushed and rusted remains of only a single spaceship, trapped between two layers of sedimentary rock somewhere on a big empty planet. Easy to miss.

An interesting point about the style, though I don't think we're expected to believe that Earth's ancient civilizations have a monoply on alliteration.

I think Jeff is talking about the archeological record on Earth. Anyway, that's my question. How could you make a spaceship without a very large industrial society? I think archeologists or geologists would have found some remnants. Jerry Friedman

I meant earthly archaeology record; where are the remnants of the residences, strip mines, steel mills, chemical plants, fuel refineries, and other features expected of an industrial society capable of building a starcrosser?

Jerry Friedman:

Ooh now I see. Sorry Jeff.

Well, Gondwanaland broke up a pretty long time ago, and Atlantis and Mu both sank. But I see a long and slippery slope here, at the bottom of which I see myself, arguing like a latter-day Von Daniken. Let me just say this instead: I don't believe that in real life there was ever a prehistoric super-civilisation on Earth. I also don't believe in travel by mirrors, genetic memory, or a compassionate god. But when I come across these things in a story, especially a story by Gene Wolfe, I'm happy to suspend my disbelief for a while.

I try to do the same, but since Wolfe brings the archaeological record into the story, you have to really think about what he's trying say. There is no mere mention and dismissal of lack of evidence, but a repeated visitation of the subject, with the character of Marsch entering all three novellas, and two of the main characters holding forth on the proper interpretation of the archaeological record, including what does and does not endure. Or are we supposed to think grasses and animal tissue formed the structures of the original starcrossing civilization? Rather than that, I think that it may be possible to explain the origin of the abos and shadow children via the time shifting themes of 5HC, but that would be another post.

Greetings In answer to: "how did the prehistoric societies travel the stars without leaving any hint of their ability to do so in either the story or the archaeological record?" It is possible to travel through ether leaving your physical form in the same place. Such phenomenon is called travel in the Jinas form (Hindostanic root). Any esoterist will acknowledge this. Mayan people did it all the time. Well evidences - you'll acknowledge that our civilization is crossing a Iron period where animal emotions rule our ways. Advanced men do not flatter themselves. Old civs did left evidence of their ways (in stone for instance) but we are in such a primary degenerate state comparing to them that we cannot see the obvious anymore - even with crude physical eyes. Periodic cataclysms like the one that struck Atlantis and before that Lemuria are meant to clean up "mankind" (in Lemuria men weren't exactly like we are nowadays). Our civilization time is ending - I wouldn't like to get much into eschatology - but lets go peacefully knowing that from our ashes others will arise - stronger and bond to have higher virtues. +-----------------+ |José Filipe Silva| | lafey at netcabo.pt| +-----------------+

This I've heard of, but it is not specifically mentioned in the story, and it would contradict the dependency the abos have on their physical bodies. "A Story" has ghosts and the Wise Old One, but they are ultimately dependent on abos with physical, living bodies for influence.

But doesn't Jinas travel confound this process of catclysmic refinement? It lets the old, unimproved races escape their purification by traveling to other planets, where they endure to late mingle with and contaminate the successive civilizations' "higher virtues."

[snip] Apart from anything else, the OWO states explicitly that the Shadow Children's ancestors arrived in a "starcrosser" -- i.e. a spaceship (p. 125, Ace edition). --Adam