{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3205", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3205, "subject": "5HC Strong Evidence of Telepathy?", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-04-26T23:15:40+00:00", "last": "2002-05-03T17:43:41+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-04-26T23:15:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 5HC Strong Evidence of Telepathy?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Tony Ellis, referring to the list of names, wrote:\nThe Old Wise One has pulled these names out of the minds of passing starship\ncrews. Check out the speech preceding the list of names, which begins \"We\ncame here either recently or a long, long time ago.\" He says that when the\nShadow Children try to remember the name of 'their' home, they \"hear also\nthe mind-singing\", ie pick up the thoughts of, passing starship crews, and\n\"these thoughts come into our songs.\" The next sentence is the list of\nnames.\n\nSo. The Shadow Children know that 'their' home is somewhere long ago and far\naway. They find some pretty names for places long ago and far away in the\nminds of passing starship crews that seem to strike a chord, so these are\nthe ones they come up with." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Leaving aside the issues of shape-changing (yes/no), and abo existence\n(yes/no), one thing I think this quote does point to rather strongly is\ntelepathy in general and the weird psychic linkage between Number 5 and\nV.R.T.\n\nBecause while nearly all of the other names could plausibly be plucked out\nof passing starships over time, Gondwanaland seems to be coined by Number 5\nin his lesson at the library, on a very specific day.\n\nDoes this mean that the moment when Number 5 is saying it out loud is\nsimultaneous to the moment when OWO is saying it? (Not in the \"distant\nAnnese past\" sense of \"A Story,\" but in one of the other senses: for\nexample, the \"the story is a disguised version of V.R.T.'s real life and\ncrimes\" sense, where it might thereby point to V.R.T. being in some kind of\nsandpit/prison at the time when Number 5 was in the library.) Maybe, maybe\nnot.\n\nFurthermore, this detail adds to the other strange confusions between\nV.R.T. and Number 5: two others include the fact that Number 5 sees robot\nguards gone berserk, killing prisoners in the third year of his sentence\n(Ace pb p. 70), and V.R.T. had a dream of robots going berserk, killing him\n(210); Number 5 has dream of court fenced with pillars, which echoes the\nwoodhenge observatory on Sainte Anne seen by Marsch, shown by V.R.T.\n\nOne brother who dreams the life and trials of the other brother, this is a\nbig element of \"A Story.\" And when they finally meet, one brother kills\nthe other; and Number 5 may have set in motion V.R.T.'s arrest when he\ndenounced him as an abo spy (that is: what if \"A Story\" is retelling\nV.R.T.'s life prior to prison).\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\nPEACE: a timeline WITH dates! Come see!\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-05-03T14:13:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) 5HC Strong Evidence of Telepathy?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 4/26/02 6:15 PM, Michael Andre-Driussi at mantis at siriusfiction.com wrote:\nFurthermore, this detail adds to the other strange confusions between\nV.R.T. and Number 5: two others include the fact that Number 5 sees robot\nguards gone berserk, killing prisoners in the third year of his sentence\n(Ace pb p. 70), and V.R.T. had a dream of robots going berserk, killing him\n(210); Number 5 has dream of court fenced with pillars, which echoes the\nwoodhenge observatory on Sainte Anne seen by Marsch, shown by V.R.T.\n\nOne brother who dreams the life and trials of the other brother, this is a\nbig element of \"A Story.\" And when they finally meet, one brother kills\nthe other; and Number 5 may have set in motion V.R.T.'s arrest when he\ndenounced him as an abo spy (that is: what if \"A Story\" is retelling\nV.R.T.'s life prior to prison)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There is another possible explanation for the strange echoes between V.R.T.\nand Number Five: that Number Five has written all three parts, not just the\nfirst part. He wrote his autobiography \"to disclose myself to myself\"; he\nmight very well have retold his story in fictional guise for the same\nreason. (And if one Gene Wolfe can write fiction, so can another.) And it\nwould no doubt have amused him to portray Marsch as being in reality what he\nhad accused him of being to insult him and drive him away; to show the Port\nMimizon beauracracy as slipshod and inefficient; and to show the museum at\nRoncevaux, and by extension the library at Port Mimizon, as gullible\n(Trenchard's fake artifacts).\n\nI don't really believe this theory, but I don't think it can be disproven\neither, at least not through internal evidence.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-05-03T17:43:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) 5HC Strong Evidence of Telepathy?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Adam Stephanides wrote:\non 4/26/02 6:15 PM, Michael Andre-Driussi at mantis at siriusfiction.com\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Furthermore, this detail adds to the other strange confusions between\nV.R.T. and Number 5: two others include the fact that Number 5 sees\nrobot\nguards gone berserk, killing prisoners in the third year of his\nsentence\n(Ace pb p. 70), and V.R.T. had a dream of robots going berserk,\nkilling him\n(210);" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "They're not quite that similar, if I remember correctly. Number\nFive sees one robot go berserk and kill a number (15?) of prisoners;\nV. R. T. dreams of several non-berserk robots killing him. But\nI don't think I'd have noticed the resemblance at all, so thanks!\n...\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] } ] }