Subject: (urth) Lupine Humor: A Challenge

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:56:03 +0000

In among all the serious discussion, I'd like to toss out something fun.

Now and again in reading (and more often in rereading) texts Lupine, I find 
the literary equivalent of an Easter egg in software, a joke (along the
lines 
of Zelazny's infamous Shan-hitting fit, but far more subtle): something that

you only realize is a joke if you squint at it from the correct angle. None
of these have made me faint, but I do not claim to be a strong man.

Presumably, most of you have seen some of these also. I'd like to challenge
as many of you as possible to post your favorite example. 

(In honesty, I'd like to collect them and cobble together an article 
on Wolfe's odd sense of humor.)

To roll the ball, the following is my own personal favorite. It comes 
from NIGHTSIDE THE LONG SUN (p.120 of the original h/c edition), as 
Silk is looking down from the roof of Blood's house, before his first 
meeting with Mucor:

	...the talus rolled into view. He froze until it had 
	passed. There was a chance, of course, that it had 
	concealed, upward- or rearward-directed eyes; Maytera 
	Marble had once mentioned such features in connection 
	with Maytera Rose. But that, too, seemed less than 
	probable.

I presume you all know what Marble actually said about Rose...

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From: Jason Voegele <jason at jvoegele.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 17:28:18 +0000

> Now and again in reading (and more often in rereading) texts Lupine, I
> find  the literary equivalent of an Easter egg in software, a joke (along 
> the lines of Zelazny's infamous Shan-hitting fit, but far more subtle):
> something that you only realize is a joke if you squint at it from the
> correct angle.
[...]
> Presumably, most of you have seen some of these also. I'd like to
> challenge as many of you as possible to post your favorite example. 

I don't know if it's intended as a joke, but one of my favorite 
such "squinty" moments is in ON BLUE'S WATERS when Horn tells us that there 
was rumored to be a third book written about Silk (apart from Horn and 
Nettle's book and the book written by Scleroderma).  He tells us it was 
written by a man in Urbasecundus.

Urbasecundus, of course, meaning "Second City".  Do you know anybody who's 
written a book about Silk and that hails from Chicago, which is also called 
the "Second City"?

I'm also fond of the dig at Hartwell (I think?) at the end of EXODUS FROM 
THE LONG SUN...the reference to "Starcrosser's Landfall".

Jason Voegele

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:57:12 +0000

>as many of you as possible to post your favorite example.

I don't suppose it's really a joke, and it's not that subtle, but I've
always found it funny; it's one of Wolfe's little digs at the eggheads of
academe, from CASTLEVIEW (pp. 36-37). Lisa Solomon is talking about the
fireplace:

"Do you know, I read just today that open fires don't actually heat a
building? It seems they draw in more cold air than they warm; just think of
all those ignorant people who froze themselves to death, and never realized
it, for thousands of years."

-Roy

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 20:05:41 +0000

> building? It seems they draw in more cold air than they warm; just think
> of all those ignorant people who froze themselves to death, and never
> realized it, for thousands of years."

Huh. And I took it as more of a dig at Lisa -- because she's right as
far as she goes, but Wolfe is enough of an engineer to know that "they
draw in more cold air than they warm" is actually true for a house with 
any kind of central heating ... having an open fire in one room of the
house can actually way raise your heating bill. (The best solution is a 
sealed fireplace with a passive or active heat-return system, which we
actually have in our house, but that's getting way off topic...)

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 07:08:57 +0000

Blattid wrote:

>house can actually way raise your heating bill.

That reminds me of the professor who, about thirty years ago, _proved_
mathematically that the Apollo moon landings were a physical impossibility.
:-)

Ann Schindler was cold and wet. As she and Wrangler drove to the "rambling
fieldstone building" where Lisa and the girls stayed, she imagined a
"red-hot pot-bellied stove in a bunkhouse". When she entered the house, what
she found instead was "a wide rustic room, one wall of which was mostly
fireplace; it held a bigger, redder, hotter fire than Ann could ever have
imagined". Ann said she wanted to sit by the fireplace, which is when Lisa
made her comment.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Wolfe was ridiculing the author of the
assertion Lisa read about. I doubt seriously that that ranch house had any
sort of central heating; and I know for a fact that all those "ignorant
people who froze themselves to death, and never realized it, for thousands
of years" didn't. For uncounted generations all that kept people from
freezing to death in the winter _were_ the "open fires" in the hearths of
their homes. I am even more certain of that than I am of Neil Armstrong.

-Roy

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From: Nigel Price <nigel.a.price at virgin.net>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:51:19 +0000

>>I presume you all know what Marble actually said about Rose...

You've got me uncertain now.

I'd always assumed that Marble said something like, "That Chem must have
eyes in the back of her head!"

Or did you think that a somewhat more robust sentiment had been expressed?

Nigel (busy trying to remember the funny bits, of which he knows there are
many although he cannot now recall a single one - he was very interested in
that business of the way open fires work, though)

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:10:47 +0000

> I'd always assumed that Marble said something like, "That Chem must
> have eyes in the back of her head!"

Yeah, that's basically it -- though I was thinking of it a little
more straitly -- "Never think Maytera doesn't see you -- she has 
eyes in the back of her head." (And, of course, Rose isn't a chem,
Marble is; Rose is a bio...)

--D

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From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 15:47:14 +0000

> their homes. I am even more certain of that than I am of Neil Armstrong.

Right, but that's totally consistent with the statement that open
fires cause a net loss of heat in otherwise heated buildings.  Of
course it's far better, when you're cold, to come into a building
with a fire in the fireplace than an unheated building, but the
building would be warmer (physically if not emotionally) if it had
a stove instead.  And of course, Ann is right that the area around
the fireplace is the warmest part.

Jerry Friedman

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

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From: Tony Ellis <littlesense at necronomicon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:03:25 +0000

This one is hardly subtle, but I like it too much to miss the opportunity to
quote it:

"Also he's big in aquarium supplies -- that's quite a small market
altogether, but Ffoulkes is big in it, if you get what I mean." - Forlesen.

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:06:41 +0000

Okay, _I_ don't get that one. Would someone explain? 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Ellis [mailto:LittleSense at necronomicon.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:03 PM
To: urth at urth.net
Subject: Re: (urth) Lupine Humor: A Challenge

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From: Mark Millman <millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:51:10 +0000

There appear to be at least three jokes in
"Under Hill"; as it's brand new, I leave it
to you all to find them.

And thank you, Nick Gevers.

Mark Millman
(Nacre)

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From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 18:17:53 +0000

Apart from the obvious parady of Ralph 124C41+ in the villians' name, I
can't see any jokes.     But is it not a notably Vancean story?

    hartshorn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Millman" <millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org>
To: <urth at urth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: (urth) Lupine Humor: A Challenge

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:53:35 +0000

POSSIBLE SPOILERS for "Under Hill" if you haven't read it yet.

> "Under Hill"; as it's brand new, I leave it

Well, there's some pretty sad Chinese-name-jokes of the 
level of the infamous "How Hi is a Chinaman".

(I'd have guess that "Gifflet le Fils de Do" was something 
similar but nothing came to mind and a quick search turned
up this from the Prose Merlin:

	And Kay served at tables as was reson, and two yonge 
	knyghtes of grete prowesse and were sones to two 
	casteleins -- that oon was cleped Lucas the Boteler, 
	and that other Gifflet, the sone of Doo of Cardoell, 
	which hadde be maister forester to Uterpendragon. 

And he also turns up in Percivale and other old Arthurian
texts, so that's just a straightforward name reference.)

I'd be willing to bet that there was something funny hiding
here:

	The princess lowered her eyes in shame. "There is 
	also my chop - my seal, perhaps? Has this humble 
	one committed some risible error, my lord?"

but I'm darned if I can figure it out.

	my name's 12BFW-CY-, by the way, and I come 
	from the remote future.

H'mmm. That's a Gernsbackian joke -- a reference to "Ralph 
124C41+" The "+" in Ralph's name was a reference to his 
exceptionally high intelligence, wasn't it? Not sure what 
to make of the mid-name -; possibly doubleyou minus cee would
be tee, so 12BFTY-. Not much better... 

At any rate, looking at the story as a while, we see a smug,
Gernsbackian superscientist is being outwitted by a "man of
the Dark Ages who show[s] a glimmer of intelligence," which 
I think is kind of nice. It's not one of Wolfe's masterpieces
by a long shot, but I like it.

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From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 22:26:35 +0000

> > "Under Hill"; as it's brand new, I leave it

I smiled at "I like a man of spirit."  "And he likes you."  Also at "But
anyone who rescues her can have her.  The enchanter has promised her
that."  (Sure it's not a threat?)

Glossing "morning star", from a man who provided no explanation for
"contus", might also qualify as a joke.

> level of the infamous "How Hi is a Chinaman".

Sad is right.

> texts, so that's just a straightforward name reference.)

Ah, those quick searches!  I never heard of the Prose Merlin.  Anyway,
it's kind of a funny name.

> but I'm darned if I can figure it out.

Well, she did make an error, from Sir Bradwen's point of view, but I can't
see why it's especially risible.
 
> be tee, so 12BFTY-. Not much better... 

One to be if double-you (i.e., you two) not see why not?  Since you
suggested that that hyphen is a minus, maybe it means negative, meaning
not?

> by a long shot, but I like it.

Didn't take a whole lot to outwit him.  This seems like
Wolfe-writes-a-children's-story.  I'm reminded of Delany's "Prismatica". 
But possibly I'm missing something.

Jerry Friedman

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
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From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 04:54:49 +0000

>      From: 
>           "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com>

> altogether, but Ffoulkes is big in it, if you get what I mean." - Forlesen.

	Big fish in a small pond.

	I'm not sure if it counts, but given the time of year it begins and the
passage of time, 
TBOTNS can be read as an incredibly grandiose "What I Did On My Summer
Vacation."

-- 
Jeff Wilson
How Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789
"If your SecOp can see you, so can the enemy." -Cpt Law

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