Subject: (urth) Sherry Gold's death

From: StoneOx17 <stoneox17 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:56:17 +0000

In response to my post about Mr. Tilly's death, mantis comments

> About Sherry Gold, Stone Ox wrote:
> >I would counter that the most mysterious thing about Doris's death is why
> >she is in the book in the first place, and that Sherry's death occured
> >long after Weer's.
> No, my understanding is that Sherry died and then 
> Weer had a stroke the dayafter.  This stroke may or may 
> not have been fatal.

I'm not convinced.  I see Sherry's death as being one instance of the 
"everybody is dead" theme, and Weer's stroke as being the first of
his ailments in the afterlife (although it may be a reflection of a real
stroke that killed him) as in "... I am very ill.  Sicker, I think, than I
have ever been before--sicker, even, than I was this winter, before
Eleanor Bold's tree fell."  In fact, I think Weer had his posthumous
stroke _because_ Sherry Gold died, and that she was the last 
person alive who remembered him well.

The key is the following passage (p. 29 of the Orb edition)
"Now ... I feel that she [Weer's mother] lived on and on through whole ages 
of the world, as though she might have lived on forever. (As perhaps 
elsewhere she has.)  It is too late for it now, but it seems to me that we 
ought to have kept records, by the new generations, of our remoteness from 
events of high significance.  When the last man to have seen some occurrence 
or personality of importance died; and then when the last person who knew him 
died, and so on. But first, we would have the first man describe this event, 
this thing he had seen, and when each of them was gone, we would read the 
description publicly to see if it still meant anything to us--and if it did 
not, the series, the chain of linked lives, would be at an end."

This view ties in very well with my interpretation of the story of the geese 
of Lough Conn (is Lough Conn really the Kanakessee?) and the ending of Peace, 
where, when the last person to have heard of Weer dies, Weer's ghost reaches 
the end of his time and, not realizing that all he has to do to reach Heaven 
is repent of his sins and ask Jesus for admission, goes back in time to 
relive his afterlife.  The geese of Lough Conn are the memories of Weer held 
by the living, and the hermit who baptizes the goose is Dan French, who Weer 
finds instead of the doctors he is looking,\ for, but who nevertheless gives 
him the best advice possible.  

I set forth this interpretation in more detail in my post of September 7, 
2001, which, either because of its timing or its content, seems to have been 
largely ignored.  And thanks to Michael Straight for his suggestion, obvious 
once its been made, that the Chinese philosopher's headrest at the end means 
that Weer will be reliving his afterlife (and not necessarily for the first 
time).

Stone Ox

--

---

From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:41:47 +0000

Stone Ox wrote
>person alive who remembered him well.

Oh, okay.  Just be sure to mention your variant reading upfront so we can
avoid unnecessary tail-chasing.

So Sherry's death triggers Weer's wandering?  No, just a posthumous stroke,
a turning over in the grave--the wandering is still triggered by the fall
of the elm (hundreds of years after Sherry's death)?

If =this= is true, then any post-stroke memories (in the factory, limping;
the illness and death of the secretary; the letter from Peacock to Smart on
the desktop [?]) are all of the more spacey "corridors of time" category,
like the visits to Dr. Black (did it ever really happen?) and Dr. Van Ness
(compilation of many visits boiled down, with bad splices), rather than the
"realistic" category of nearly everything else.

Still, that would be pretty funny: "Doctor, I've had a stroke!" "What, and
after you've already died?"  (This humor remains whether the stroke was
posthumous or note.)

Stone Ox also wrote
>that Weer will be reliving his afterlife (and not necessarily for the first

I don't know if you have addressed this or not, so I'll just go ahead: One
problem with the "recurring loop" reading of PEACE is that there are clear
ways to signal such a thing: FINNEGANS WAKE (and in genre, DHALGREN) uses a
split sentence, the opening fragment then lining up perfectly with the
ending fragment many hundreds of pages later.  The text is a circle, no
question about it.

The framing structure of PEACE does not really allow such a thing: it is
quite linear. A. D. Weer starts writing in a notebook (the beginning) and
then he stops writing (the end).  It would not have been too hard at all
for an ending fragment to match up to a beginning fragment, but it did not
happen.  Nor would it have been difficult if Weer had a notion to express
himself in non-writing, through song or sculpture, for example (change of
media, but the same story), but that did not happen, either.

I am not denying that there is a strong sense of recurrance in PEACE, I'm
just pointing out a potential problem in taking such a recurrance in a
literal way as meaning that Weer will do the same thing again, without
writing it down.

Speaking of which, I'm hoping I can get Gene Wolfe to go to the Winchester
House in San Jose, or tag along if he is already going!

Oo, even better: get some friends to go dressed up as characters from
PEACE.  Have Sherry Gold wandering around inside Winchester House, bobby
socks and all.

=mantis=

Sirius Fiction
booklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley
31 copies of "Snake's-hands" until OP!
http://www.siriusfiction.com/

--

---

From: StoneOx17 <stoneox17 at aol.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:40:05 +0000

In reply to my statement that I thought Sherry died after Weer,

mantis wrote
> >stroke that killed him)
,,,
> >In fact, I think Weer had his posthumous
> >person alive who remembered him well
...
>of the elm (hundreds of years after Sherry's death)?

The wandering is still triggered by the fall of the elm ... showing real-life 
posthumous events can have an effect on Weer's spirit.  Why not Sherry's
death as well?

>"realistic" category of nearly everything else.

No, I'd say rather that the stroke is filtering back into his recollections 
and
coloring them.  You have to admit =something= funny is going on with the 
stroke.  In real life, when Weer slept with Sherry, he could hardly have 
apologized to her for a stroke he had after she died.

I wrote
> >And thanks to Michael Straight for his suggestion, obvious once
> >it's been made, that the Chinese philosopher's headrest at the end means

mantis replied
>ways to signal such a thing: FINNEGANS WAKE (and in genre, DHALGREN) uses 
>a split sentence, the opening fragment then lining up perfectly with the

I have to admit I'm not so sure about the circularity.  You could also take 
the 
hope of resurrection from the Chinese philosopher's pillow as a warning 
against belief in reincarnation, and not as a sign that Weer's ghost will 
relive 
his afterlife.  Given how little I know about Purgatory, I can't even say 
which 
interpretation is more in line with Catholic thought.   

>PEACE.  Have Sherry Gold wandering around inside Winchester House, bobby

Good luck ... that sounds like great fun!

Stone Ox

--

---

From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:54:59 +0000

----- Original Message -----

>PEACE.  Have Sherry Gold wandering around inside Winchester House, bobby

Ohhhhhh  to be there!!!!!!

    hartshorn

--