{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3326", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3326, "subject": "names + Typhon", "messages": 7, "voices": 7, "first": "2002-06-20T17:35:31+00:00", "last": "2002-06-21T12:23:46+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2002-06-20T17:35:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mr. Borski has recently made the point that Typhon's name is mythological, \nimplying that he should be of alien stock rather than simply of \"other\", \nurthly origin. However, aren't there mythological names, like Talos, that \nreveal traits rather than place of origin? Talos is a mechanical man, but he \nis not necessarily extra-terrestrial - indeed, he is from Urth. It does imply \nthat he is \"other\" - and while I CAN see a slight difference between \nBaldanders and the mythological names, I don't find the presence of a \nmythological name as complete evidence that Typhon must be extraterrestrial - \nrather, it could be an assumed name that shows his difference and superiority \nto his \"normal\" subjects (much as Karol Wojtyla would choose the name John \nPaul II or Bullingbrook would name himself Henry IV - it is common to choose a \nname of distinction to establish the authority of \"otherness\", and insinuate \nthat you are of uncommon stock). Just a note - I think we need slightly more \nthan a mythological name to definitely brand someone as Alien, since I don't \nthink all the characters with mythological names are from the outer reaches, \nespecially as evidenced by Dr. Talos.\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-06-20T17:42:44+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Good post, Marc.\n\nOne other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological\nmonsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the\n\"saints\" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since \nhe is not one.\n\nNota bene: Typhon and his whole family have mythical names aboard \nthe starcrosser _Whorl._\n\nAnd who shall I say is calling?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-06-20T19:07:31+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nOne other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological\nmonsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the\n\"saints\" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since \nhe is not one." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Took me a moment to realize you are saying Typhon is not a citizen of the\nCommonwealth, rather than that Typhon is not a saint, which would\ndisqualify most uses of the convention...\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-06-20T20:32:13+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nGood post, Marc.\n\nOne other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological\nmonsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the\n\"saints\" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since \nhe is not one." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's a Saint Piaton (which proves nothing, since there were lots\nof people named Simon--Shim`on, I think--before anyone was in a\nposition to be a Catholic saint).\n\nThere seems to be some confusion, by the way, over whether people\nare using \"alien\" to mean \"not born on Urth though possibly human\"\nor \"not human\". Or maybe just \"foreign to the Commonwealth\", like\nLoyal to the Group of Seventeen, and presumably Ash.\n...\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2002-06-21T02:00:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No one has brought up the fact that Vodalus etc. have Roman/Latin names.\nWhich is what Juterna has too; it may indicate whose side you're on in a\nvery simple way (Romans v. Christians). Also that group of warrior renegades\n(haven't the energy to look it up) in the forrest have Germanic names. I\nthink all this stuff is in -Lexicon Urthus- actually.\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-06-21T12:23:46+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 20/06/2002 18:35:31 maa32 wrote:\nMr. Borski has recently made the point that Typhon's name is\nmythological,\nimplying that he should be of alien stock rather than simply of \"other\",\nurthly origin. However, aren't there mythological names, like Talos,\nthat\nreveal traits rather than place of origin? Talos is a mechanical man,\nbut he\nis not necessarily extra-terrestrial - indeed, he is from Urth. It does\nimply\nthat he is \"other\" - and while I CAN see a slight difference between\nBaldanders and the mythological names, I don't find the presence of a\nmythological name as complete evidence that Typhon must be\nextraterrestrial -\nrather, it could be an assumed name that shows his difference and\nsuperiority\nto his \"normal\" subjects (much as Karol Wojtyla would choose the name\nJohn\nPaul II or Bullingbrook would name himself Henry IV - it is common to\nchoose a\nname of distinction to establish the authority of \"otherness\", and\ninsinuate\nthat you are of uncommon stock). Just a note - I think we need slightly\nmore\nthan a mythological name to definitely brand someone as Alien, since I\ndon't\nthink all the characters with mythological names are from the outer\nreaches,\nespecially as evidenced by Dr. Talos." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Of the word alien do you mean \"non-human\" or \"not of Urth\".\n\nTyphon's story suggests that he is human but not of earth.\n\nTalos is of Urth but created (by Baldanders).\n\nAnd that put's me in mind of a third distinction. Are the heirodules not\ncreated (in the hey, look what I cooked up rather than the created He\nthem, male and female kind)?\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-06-20T21:22:00+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) names + Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Jerry Friedman wrote:\nThere seems to be some confusion, by the way, over whether people\nare using \"alien\" to mean \"not born on Urth though possibly human\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "or \"not human\". Or maybe just \"foreign to the Commonwealth\", like\nLoyal to the Group of Seventeen, and presumably Ash.<<<<<<<\n\n\nCrush clarifies his murky perspective:\nFor purposes of this thread I presume the term \"alien\" has taken on them\nmeaning \"non-human sentient being originating on another planet\" ever since\nthe following discourse between Blattid and Robert Borski's in Borski's\nposting on 6/17:\n\nBlattid wrote:\n\"The undines, as near as can be told, _are_ homo sapiens -- they are more\nadvanced cases of the process to which Baldanders has been subjecting\nhimself.\"\n\nBorski responded:\nNot sure I agree with this.\n\nHow's that?\n\n-- Crush" } ] } ] }