# names + Typhon

*The Urth list — 7 messages, 7 voices, 20 Jun 2002*

<https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3326>

> Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright
> in each message remains with the person who wrote it.
> Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original
> archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than
> retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.

---

### maa32
*20 Jun 2002, 17:35*

Mr. Borski has recently made the point that Typhon's name is mythological, 
implying that he should be of alien stock rather than simply of "other", 
urthly origin.  However, aren't there mythological names, like Talos, that 
reveal traits rather than place of origin?  Talos is a mechanical man, but he 
is not necessarily extra-terrestrial - indeed, he is from Urth.  It does imply 
that he is "other" - and while I CAN see a slight difference between 
Baldanders and the mythological names, I don't find the presence of a 
mythological name as complete evidence that Typhon must be extraterrestrial - 
rather, it could be an assumed name that shows his difference and superiority 
to his "normal" subjects (much as Karol Wojtyla would choose the name John 
Paul II or Bullingbrook would name himself Henry IV - it is common to choose a 
name of distinction to establish the authority of "otherness", and insinuate 
that you are of uncommon stock).  Just a note - I think we need slightly more 
than a mythological name to definitely brand someone as Alien, since I don't 
think all the characters with mythological names are from the outer reaches, 
especially as evidenced by Dr. Talos.
Marc Aramini

---

### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
*20 Jun 2002, 17:42 · follows maa32*

Good post, Marc.

One other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological
monsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the
"saints" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since 
he is not one.

Nota bene: Typhon and his whole family have mythical names aboard 
the starcrosser _Whorl._

And who shall I say is calling?

---

### Michael Straight
*20 Jun 2002, 19:07 · follows Dan'l Danehy-Oakes*

> On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
> One other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological
> monsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the
> "saints" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since 
> he is not one.

Took me a moment to realize you are saying Typhon is not a citizen of the
Commonwealth, rather than that Typhon is not a saint, which would
disqualify most uses of the convention...

-Rostrum

---

### Jerry Friedman
*20 Jun 2002, 20:32 · follows Michael Straight*

> --- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com> wrote:
> Good post, Marc.
> 
> One other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological
> monsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the
> "saints" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since 
> he is not one.

There's a Saint Piaton (which proves nothing, since there were lots
of people named Simon--Shim`on, I think--before anyone was in a
position to be a Catholic saint).

There seems to be some confusion, by the way, over whether people
are using "alien" to mean "not born on Urth though possibly human"
or "not human".  Or maybe just "foreign to the Commonwealth", like
Loyal to the Group of Seventeen, and presumably Ash.
...

Jerry Friedman

---

### Alice K. Turner
*21 Jun 2002, 02:00 · follows Jerry Friedman*

No one has brought up the fact that Vodalus etc. have Roman/Latin names.
Which is what Juterna has too; it may indicate whose side you're on in a
very simple way (Romans v. Christians). Also that group of warrior renegades
(haven't the energy to look it up) in the forrest have Germanic names. I
think all this stuff is in -Lexicon Urthus- actually.

-alga

---

### matthew.malthouse
*21 Jun 2002, 12:23 · follows Alice K. Turner*

> On 20/06/2002 18:35:31 maa32 wrote:
> Mr. Borski has recently made the point that Typhon's name is
> mythological,
> implying that he should be of alien stock rather than simply of "other",
> urthly origin.  However, aren't there mythological names, like Talos,
> that
> reveal traits rather than place of origin?  Talos is a mechanical man,
> but he
> is not necessarily extra-terrestrial - indeed, he is from Urth.  It does
> imply
> that he is "other" - and while I CAN see a slight difference between
> Baldanders and the mythological names, I don't find the presence of a
> mythological name as complete evidence that Typhon must be
> extraterrestrial -
> rather, it could be an assumed name that shows his difference and
> superiority
> to his "normal" subjects (much as Karol Wojtyla would choose the name
> John
> Paul II or Bullingbrook would name himself Henry IV - it is common to
> choose a
> name of distinction to establish the authority of "otherness", and
> insinuate
> that you are of uncommon stock).  Just a note - I think we need slightly
> more
> than a mythological name to definitely brand someone as Alien, since I
> don't
> think all the characters with mythological names are from the outer
> reaches,
> especially as evidenced by Dr. Talos.

Of the word alien do you mean "non-human" or "not of Urth".

Typhon's story suggests that he is human but not of earth.

Talos is of Urth but created (by Baldanders).

And that put's me in mind of a third distinction.  Are the heirodules not
created (in the hey, look what I cooked up rather than the created He
them, male and female kind)?

Matthew

---

### James Wynn
*20 Jun 2002, 21:22 · follows matthew.malthouse*

>>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> There seems to be some confusion, by the way, over whether people
>>>> are using "alien" to mean "not born on Urth though possibly human"

or "not human".  Or maybe just "foreign to the Commonwealth", like
Loyal to the Group of Seventeen, and presumably Ash.<<<<<<<


Crush clarifies his murky perspective:
For purposes of this thread I presume the term  "alien" has taken on them
meaning "non-human sentient being originating on another planet" ever since
the following discourse between Blattid and Robert Borski's in Borski's
posting on 6/17:

Blattid wrote:
"The undines, as near as can be told, _are_ homo sapiens -- they are more
advanced cases of the process to which Baldanders has been subjecting
himself."

Borski responded:
Not sure I agree with this.

How's that?

-- Crush

---