names + Typhon The Urth list — 7 messages, 7 voices, 20 Jun 2002 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3326 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== maa32 — 20 Jun 2002, 17:35 Mr. Borski has recently made the point that Typhon's name is mythological, implying that he should be of alien stock rather than simply of "other", urthly origin. However, aren't there mythological names, like Talos, that reveal traits rather than place of origin? Talos is a mechanical man, but he is not necessarily extra-terrestrial - indeed, he is from Urth. It does imply that he is "other" - and while I CAN see a slight difference between Baldanders and the mythological names, I don't find the presence of a mythological name as complete evidence that Typhon must be extraterrestrial - rather, it could be an assumed name that shows his difference and superiority to his "normal" subjects (much as Karol Wojtyla would choose the name John Paul II or Bullingbrook would name himself Henry IV - it is common to choose a name of distinction to establish the authority of "otherness", and insinuate that you are of uncommon stock). Just a note - I think we need slightly more than a mythological name to definitely brand someone as Alien, since I don't think all the characters with mythological names are from the outer reaches, especially as evidenced by Dr. Talos. Marc Aramini ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan'l Danehy-Oakes — 20 Jun 2002, 17:42 follows, by subject match maa32 Good post, Marc. One other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological monsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the "saints" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since he is not one. Nota bene: Typhon and his whole family have mythical names aboard the starcrosser _Whorl._ And who shall I say is calling? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Straight — 20 Jun 2002, 19:07 follows, by subject match Dan'l Danehy-Oakes > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: > One other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological > monsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the > "saints" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since > he is not one. Took me a moment to realize you are saying Typhon is not a citizen of the Commonwealth, rather than that Typhon is not a saint, which would disqualify most uses of the convention... -Rostrum ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Friedman — 20 Jun 2002, 20:32 follows, by subject match Michael Straight > --- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: > Good post, Marc. > > One other point: Whatever rules may apply to the use of mythological > monsters in the Lupiverse, Typhon certainly does _not_ fall under the > "saints" naming convention for citizens of the Commonwealth, since > he is not one. There's a Saint Piaton (which proves nothing, since there were lots of people named Simon--Shim`on, I think--before anyone was in a position to be a Catholic saint). There seems to be some confusion, by the way, over whether people are using "alien" to mean "not born on Urth though possibly human" or "not human". Or maybe just "foreign to the Commonwealth", like Loyal to the Group of Seventeen, and presumably Ash. ... Jerry Friedman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Alice K. Turner — 21 Jun 2002, 02:00 follows, by subject match Jerry Friedman No one has brought up the fact that Vodalus etc. have Roman/Latin names. Which is what Juterna has too; it may indicate whose side you're on in a very simple way (Romans v. Christians). Also that group of warrior renegades (haven't the energy to look it up) in the forrest have Germanic names. I think all this stuff is in -Lexicon Urthus- actually. -alga ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ matthew.malthouse — 21 Jun 2002, 12:23 follows, by subject match Alice K. Turner > On 20/06/2002 18:35:31 maa32 wrote: > Mr. Borski has recently made the point that Typhon's name is > mythological, > implying that he should be of alien stock rather than simply of "other", > urthly origin. However, aren't there mythological names, like Talos, > that > reveal traits rather than place of origin? Talos is a mechanical man, > but he > is not necessarily extra-terrestrial - indeed, he is from Urth. It does > imply > that he is "other" - and while I CAN see a slight difference between > Baldanders and the mythological names, I don't find the presence of a > mythological name as complete evidence that Typhon must be > extraterrestrial - > rather, it could be an assumed name that shows his difference and > superiority > to his "normal" subjects (much as Karol Wojtyla would choose the name > John > Paul II or Bullingbrook would name himself Henry IV - it is common to > choose a > name of distinction to establish the authority of "otherness", and > insinuate > that you are of uncommon stock). Just a note - I think we need slightly > more > than a mythological name to definitely brand someone as Alien, since I > don't > think all the characters with mythological names are from the outer > reaches, > especially as evidenced by Dr. Talos. Of the word alien do you mean "non-human" or "not of Urth". Typhon's story suggests that he is human but not of earth. Talos is of Urth but created (by Baldanders). And that put's me in mind of a third distinction. Are the heirodules not created (in the hey, look what I cooked up rather than the created He them, male and female kind)? Matthew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Wynn — 20 Jun 2002, 21:22 follows, by subject match matthew.malthouse > > > > Jerry Friedman wrote: > > > > There seems to be some confusion, by the way, over whether people > > > > are using "alien" to mean "not born on Urth though possibly human" or "not human". Or maybe just "foreign to the Commonwealth", like Loyal to the Group of Seventeen, and presumably Ash.<<<<<<< Crush clarifies his murky perspective: For purposes of this thread I presume the term "alien" has taken on them meaning "non-human sentient being originating on another planet" ever since the following discourse between Blattid and Robert Borski's in Borski's posting on 6/17: Blattid wrote: "The undines, as near as can be told, _are_ homo sapiens -- they are more advanced cases of the process to which Baldanders has been subjecting himself." Borski responded: Not sure I agree with this. How's that? -- Crush ------------------------------------------------------------------------------