{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3360", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3360, "subject": "First Mail", "messages": 9, "voices": 5, "first": "2002-07-16T16:20:18+00:00", "last": "2002-07-17T08:29:13+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David A Baird", "address": "david.baird at skynet.be" }, "date": "2002-07-16T16:20:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello there\n\nI am new to the mailing list. I have just re-read the \"Book Of The New Sun\" and am about halfway through \"The Urth Of The New Sun\". It wasn't until recently that I realised that there are many other books that tie-in to the future world of Severian. I think the books are some of the finest (if not the) I have ever read. The depth of imagination, quality of the narrative and the philosophical content astounds me.\n\nSo, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what is the complete list of books related and what should I read next?\n\nI realise that probably a lot of questions are answered in earlier postings, but there's an awful lot with obscure titles and the digests are not available. So, a simple first question - how far in the future are the novels set (if indeed they are in the future)...\n\nThanks!\nDave" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-07-16T17:31:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what is\nthe complete list of books related and what should I read next?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yay, an easy question!\n\n1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\n2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN\n3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes)\n4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes)\n\nTa-da!\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David A Baird", "address": "david.baird at skynet.be" }, "date": "2002-07-16T17:55:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That was too easy :-)\n\nI'd also seem some references to 'A Tale From The Wonders Of Urth And\nSky'...???\n\nDave\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" \nTo: \nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:31 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) First Mail\nHello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what\nis\nthe complete list of books related and what should I read next?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yay, an easy question!\n\n1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\n2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN\n3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes)\n4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes)\n\nTa-da!\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-07-16T18:27:59+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mantis replied..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Second that." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what\nis\nthe complete list of books related and what should I read next?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yay, an easy question!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually two questions, of which only the first is \"easy\" (and even that\nsomewhat quibblesome):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\n2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN\n3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes)\n4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "... plus various short stories scattered across a variety of\nanthologies, collections and magazines ...\n\n... plus THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS, which, if very unlikely to \nbe set in the same universe, is at least thematically related to \nthe Books of the Sun, a/k/a the Lupiverse, a/k/a the Briah \nCycle ...\n\n... none of which, however, addresses Dave's _second_ question, \n\"what should [he] read next?\" \n\nDave, if you want to continue with the main line of the Lupiverse,\nyou should definitely move on to the Books of the Long Sun and the\nShort Sun, in that order.\n\ntBotLS is set in the same universe, but in terms of plot, is \nrelated only tangentially to the adventures of Severian.\n\ntBotSS is a direct sequel to tBotLS, and also relates more\ndirectly to tBotNS in terms of plot than does its predecessor.\n\n(At least one short story, \"The Map,\" deals with a character\nfrom New Sun. At least one, \"The Night Chough,\" deals with a \ncharacter from Long/Short. I believe -- though I haven't \ntracked all of them down -- that the other short stories set \nin the Lupiverse are simply that -- \"set in the same universe.\")\n\n***HOWEVER***, this assumes that \"what should I read next\" is \na simple question of continuing in the same universe. Wolfe has\nwritten a number of other novels ranging from \"superb\" to \"Huh?\nWhat was _that_?\" (and one which he himself considers an utter\nstinkeroo and will not allow to be reprinted, OPERATION ARES,\nthough I rather like it). Which descriptions fit which of these \nnovels is a matter of some debate.\n\nIf you want to branch out of the Briah Cycle, I would highly\nrecommend either the short story collection, \"THE ISLAND OF \nDOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES\" AND OTHER STORIES, or the\nnovels FREE LIVE FREE and PEACE. Others will have other\nideas on the subject." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David A Baird", "address": "david.baird at skynet.be" }, "date": "2002-07-16T18:58:22+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks Mantis\n\nI read TFHOCerberud just before restarting TBOFNS and need to read it\nagain - is that a cpmplex plot or what!? I love the way Wolfe approaches his\nsubject with ambiguity, it leaves a lot of room for thought on the part of\nthe reader but does take some concentration :-)\n\nDave\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" \nTo: \nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:27 PM\nSubject: RE: (urth) First Mail\nMantis replied..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Second that." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what\nis\nthe complete list of books related and what should I read next?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yay, an easy question!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Actually two questions, of which only the first is \"easy\" (and even that\nsomewhat quibblesome):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\n2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN\n3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes)\n4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "... plus various short stories scattered across a variety of\nanthologies, collections and magazines ...\n\n... plus THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS, which, if very unlikely to\nbe set in the same universe, is at least thematically related to\nthe Books of the Sun, a/k/a the Lupiverse, a/k/a the Briah\nCycle ...\n\n... none of which, however, addresses Dave's _second_ question,\n\"what should [he] read next?\"\n\nDave, if you want to continue with the main line of the Lupiverse,\nyou should definitely move on to the Books of the Long Sun and the\nShort Sun, in that order.\n\ntBotLS is set in the same universe, but in terms of plot, is\nrelated only tangentially to the adventures of Severian.\n\ntBotSS is a direct sequel to tBotLS, and also relates more\ndirectly to tBotNS in terms of plot than does its predecessor.\n\n(At least one short story, \"The Map,\" deals with a character\nfrom New Sun. At least one, \"The Night Chough,\" deals with a\ncharacter from Long/Short. I believe -- though I haven't\ntracked all of them down -- that the other short stories set\nin the Lupiverse are simply that -- \"set in the same universe.\")\n\n***HOWEVER***, this assumes that \"what should I read next\" is\na simple question of continuing in the same universe. Wolfe has\nwritten a number of other novels ranging from \"superb\" to \"Huh?\nWhat was _that_?\" (and one which he himself considers an utter\nstinkeroo and will not allow to be reprinted, OPERATION ARES,\nthough I rather like it). Which descriptions fit which of these\nnovels is a matter of some debate.\n\nIf you want to branch out of the Briah Cycle, I would highly\nrecommend either the short story collection, \"THE ISLAND OF\nDOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES\" AND OTHER STORIES, or the\nnovels FREE LIVE FREE and PEACE. Others will have other\nideas on the subject.\n\n--Blattid\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-07-16T19:01:49+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.op.net/~pduggan/wolfestore.html\nHere's a nice listing of books in print.\n\nIncidentally, Mantis was surely too modest to mention that that fine\npublication Lexicon Urthus (also plugged at the same linked site --\nhttp://www.op.net/~pduggan/lexicon.html) postulates, if my memory serves\nrightly, that Severian lives about 97K years in the future.\n\nBut, of course, that point has been a subject of much recent debate.\n\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: David A Baird [mailto:david.baird at skynet.be]\nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:55 PM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) First Mail\n\nThat was too easy :-)\n\nI'd also seem some references to 'A Tale From The Wonders Of Urth And\nSky'...???\n\nDave\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" \nTo: \nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:31 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) First Mail\nHello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what\nis\nthe complete list of books related and what should I read next?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yay, an easy question!\n\n1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\n2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN\n3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes)\n4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes)\n\nTa-da!\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n--" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David A Baird", "address": "david.baird at skynet.be" }, "date": "2002-07-16T20:16:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello James\n\nCan't seem to connect to that server - I'll try again tomorrow.\n\nI've seen Lexicon Urthus mentioned but I thought it was out of print. I'd\ndearly love a copy so I can fill in my ignorance of the abundabt words Wolfe\nuses that I have no inkling of at all.\n\nOnly 97K - hmmm, I'd always envidaged it as being much later, of the order\nof several million. But then again, I was thinking of a natural demise of\nthe sun although in this re-read I noticed that the Hierodules have\n'planted' a black hole in there to keep Urth at bay. On the other hand, I\nread somewhere that it was in fact from the previous divine cycle - which I\nassume is in fact a reference to the oscillating universe theory...\n\nDave\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"James Wynn\" \nTo: \nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:01 PM\nSubject: RE: (urth) First Mail\nhttp://www.op.net/~pduggan/wolfestore.html\nHere's a nice listing of books in print.\n\nIncidentally, Mantis was surely too modest to mention that that fine\npublication Lexicon Urthus (also plugged at the same linked site --\nhttp://www.op.net/~pduggan/lexicon.html) postulates, if my memory serves\nrightly, that Severian lives about 97K years in the future.\n\nBut, of course, that point has been a subject of much recent debate.\n\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: David A Baird [mailto:david.baird at skynet.be]\nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:55 PM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) First Mail\n\nThat was too easy :-)\n\nI'd also seem some references to 'A Tale From The Wonders Of Urth And\nSky'...???\n\nDave\n----- Original Message -----\nFrom: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" \nTo: \nSent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:31 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) First Mail" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what\nis\nthe complete list of books related and what should I read next?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yay, an easy question!\n\n1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\n2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN\n3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes)\n4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes)\n\nTa-da!\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n--" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-07-16T20:42:32+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David A Baird wrote:\nOnly 97K - hmmm, I'd always envidaged it as being much later, of the order\nof several million. But then again, I was thinking of a natural demise of\nthe sun although in this re-read I noticed that the Hierodules have\n'planted' a black hole in there to keep Urth at bay." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The 97 Kyear figure is _very_ debateable, and I for one hold it to be\ncompletely implausible ... we're talking a sufficient amount of time \nso that the ruins of ancient human civilizations have been uplifted in\nthe bodies of new mountains (which, of course, are then carved into the\nfigures of Urth's vain rulers). That doesn't happen in less than multiple\nmillions of years." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org" }, "date": "2002-07-17T08:29:13+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) First Mail", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Blattid,\n\nI believe that you've forgotten \"The Cat\", which\nis told by one of the Stewards Odilo (father,\nson, or grandson--I'm having trouble remembering\nwhich). At least one of the Odilos, of course,\nappears in _The Urth of the New Sun_. And Inire\nis key to the story itself, as is Chatelaine\nSancha, whom Thecla mentions at one point.\n\nWelcome, Dave.\n\nThere are several extant brown book stories not\ngiven in BotNS or UotNS; they were mostly pub-\nlished as Cheap Street chapbooks. I've written\nabout them in the past, so the full details\nought to be in the archives--searching on \"Cheap\nStreet\" is probably the easiest approach.\n\nNacre\n\n\nOn Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes replied\nto Dave Baird, writing:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "[snip]\n\n(At least one short story, \"The Map,\" deals\nwith a character from New Sun. At least one,\n\"The Night Chough,\" deals with a character\nfrom Long/Short. I believe -- though I\nhaven't tracked all of them down -- that the\nother short stories set in the Lupiverse are\nsimply that -- \"set in the same universe.\")\n\n[snip]\n\n--Blattid" } ] } ] }