First Mail The Urth list — 9 messages, 5 voices, 16 Jul 2002 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3360 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== David A Baird — 16 Jul 2002, 16:20 Hello there I am new to the mailing list. I have just re-read the "Book Of The New Sun" and am about halfway through "The Urth Of The New Sun". It wasn't until recently that I realised that there are many other books that tie-in to the future world of Severian. I think the books are some of the finest (if not the) I have ever read. The depth of imagination, quality of the narrative and the philosophical content astounds me. So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what is the complete list of books related and what should I read next? I realise that probably a lot of questions are answered in earlier postings, but there's an awful lot with obscure titles and the digests are not available. So, a simple first question - how far in the future are the novels set (if indeed they are in the future)... Thanks! Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Andre-Driussi — 16 Jul 2002, 17:31 follows, by subject match David A Baird Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard! > So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what is > the complete list of books related and what should I read next? Yay, an easy question! 1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN 2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN 3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes) 4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes) Ta-da! =mantis= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David A Baird — 16 Jul 2002, 17:55 follows, by subject match Michael Andre-Driussi That was too easy :-) I'd also seem some references to 'A Tale From The Wonders Of Urth And Sky'...??? Dave ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Andre-Driussi" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: (urth) First Mail > Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard! > > So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what > > is > > the complete list of books related and what should I read next? > Yay, an easy question! > > 1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN > 2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN > 3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes) > 4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes) > > Ta-da! > > =mantis= > > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan'l Danehy-Oakes — 16 Jul 2002, 18:27 follows, by subject match David A Baird Mantis replied... > Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard! Second that. > > So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what > > is > > the complete list of books related and what should I read next? > Yay, an easy question! Actually two questions, of which only the first is "easy" (and even that somewhat quibblesome): > 1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN > 2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN > 3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes) > 4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes) ... plus various short stories scattered across a variety of anthologies, collections and magazines ... ... plus THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS, which, if very unlikely to be set in the same universe, is at least thematically related to the Books of the Sun, a/k/a the Lupiverse, a/k/a the Briah Cycle ... ... none of which, however, addresses Dave's _second_ question, "what should [he] read next?" Dave, if you want to continue with the main line of the Lupiverse, you should definitely move on to the Books of the Long Sun and the Short Sun, in that order. tBotLS is set in the same universe, but in terms of plot, is related only tangentially to the adventures of Severian. tBotSS is a direct sequel to tBotLS, and also relates more directly to tBotNS in terms of plot than does its predecessor. (At least one short story, "The Map," deals with a character from New Sun. At least one, "The Night Chough," deals with a character from Long/Short. I believe -- though I haven't tracked all of them down -- that the other short stories set in the Lupiverse are simply that -- "set in the same universe.") ***HOWEVER***, this assumes that "what should I read next" is a simple question of continuing in the same universe. Wolfe has written a number of other novels ranging from "superb" to "Huh? What was _that_?" (and one which he himself considers an utter stinkeroo and will not allow to be reprinted, OPERATION ARES, though I rather like it). Which descriptions fit which of these novels is a matter of some debate. If you want to branch out of the Briah Cycle, I would highly recommend either the short story collection, "THE ISLAND OF DOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES" AND OTHER STORIES, or the novels FREE LIVE FREE and PEACE. Others will have other ideas on the subject. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David A Baird — 16 Jul 2002, 18:58 follows, by subject match Dan'l Danehy-Oakes Thanks Mantis I read TFHOCerberud just before restarting TBOFNS and need to read it again - is that a cpmplex plot or what!? I love the way Wolfe approaches his subject with ambiguity, it leaves a lot of room for thought on the part of the reader but does take some concentration :-) Dave ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:27 PM > Subject: RE: (urth) First Mail > Mantis replied... > > Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard! > Second that. > > > So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what > > > is > > > the complete list of books related and what should I read next? > > Yay, an easy question! > Actually two questions, of which only the first is "easy" (and even that > somewhat quibblesome): > > 1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN > > 2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN > > 3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes) > > 4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes) > ... plus various short stories scattered across a variety of > anthologies, collections and magazines ... > > ... plus THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS, which, if very unlikely to > be set in the same universe, is at least thematically related to > the Books of the Sun, a/k/a the Lupiverse, a/k/a the Briah > Cycle ... > > ... none of which, however, addresses Dave's _second_ question, > "what should [he] read next?" > > Dave, if you want to continue with the main line of the Lupiverse, > you should definitely move on to the Books of the Long Sun and the > Short Sun, in that order. > > tBotLS is set in the same universe, but in terms of plot, is > related only tangentially to the adventures of Severian. > > tBotSS is a direct sequel to tBotLS, and also relates more > directly to tBotNS in terms of plot than does its predecessor. > > (At least one short story, "The Map," deals with a character > from New Sun. At least one, "The Night Chough," deals with a > character from Long/Short. I believe -- though I haven't > tracked all of them down -- that the other short stories set > in the Lupiverse are simply that -- "set in the same universe.") > > ***HOWEVER***, this assumes that "what should I read next" is > a simple question of continuing in the same universe. Wolfe has > written a number of other novels ranging from "superb" to "Huh? > What was _that_?" (and one which he himself considers an utter > stinkeroo and will not allow to be reprinted, OPERATION ARES, > though I rather like it). Which descriptions fit which of these > novels is a matter of some debate. > > If you want to branch out of the Briah Cycle, I would highly > recommend either the short story collection, "THE ISLAND OF > DOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES" AND OTHER STORIES, or the > novels FREE LIVE FREE and PEACE. Others will have other > ideas on the subject. > > --Blattid > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Wynn — 16 Jul 2002, 19:01 follows, by subject match David A Baird http://www.op.net/~pduggan/wolfestore.html Here's a nice listing of books in print. Incidentally, Mantis was surely too modest to mention that that fine publication Lexicon Urthus (also plugged at the same linked site -- http://www.op.net/~pduggan/lexicon.html) postulates, if my memory serves rightly, that Severian lives about 97K years in the future. But, of course, that point has been a subject of much recent debate. -----Original Message----- From: David A Baird [mailto:david.baird at skynet.be] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:55 PM To: urth at urth.net Subject: Re: (urth) First Mail That was too easy :-) I'd also seem some references to 'A Tale From The Wonders Of Urth And Sky'...??? Dave ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Andre-Driussi" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: (urth) First Mail > Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard! > > So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what > > is > > the complete list of books related and what should I read next? > Yay, an easy question! > > 1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN > 2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN > 3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes) > 4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes) > > Ta-da! > > =mantis= > > > > -- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David A Baird — 16 Jul 2002, 20:16 follows, by subject match James Wynn Hello James Can't seem to connect to that server - I'll try again tomorrow. I've seen Lexicon Urthus mentioned but I thought it was out of print. I'd dearly love a copy so I can fill in my ignorance of the abundabt words Wolfe uses that I have no inkling of at all. Only 97K - hmmm, I'd always envidaged it as being much later, of the order of several million. But then again, I was thinking of a natural demise of the sun although in this re-read I noticed that the Hierodules have 'planted' a black hole in there to keep Urth at bay. On the other hand, I read somewhere that it was in fact from the previous divine cycle - which I assume is in fact a reference to the oscillating universe theory... Dave ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Wynn" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:01 PM > Subject: RE: (urth) First Mail > http://www.op.net/~pduggan/wolfestore.html > Here's a nice listing of books in print. > > Incidentally, Mantis was surely too modest to mention that that fine > publication Lexicon Urthus (also plugged at the same linked site -- > http://www.op.net/~pduggan/lexicon.html) postulates, if my memory serves > rightly, that Severian lives about 97K years in the future. > > But, of course, that point has been a subject of much recent debate. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David A Baird [mailto:david.baird at skynet.be] > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:55 PM > To: urth at urth.net > Subject: Re: (urth) First Mail > > That was too easy :-) > > I'd also seem some references to 'A Tale From The Wonders Of Urth And > Sky'...??? > > Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Andre-Driussi" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: (urth) First Mail > > Hello there Dave Baird, and welcome aboard! > > > So, a bit of guidance from those of you that know better than I - what > > > is > > > the complete list of books related and what should I read next? > > Yay, an easy question! > > > > 1) THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN > > 2) THE URTH OF THE NEW SUN > > 3) THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN (four volumes) > > 4) THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN (three volumes) > > > > Ta-da! > > > > =mantis= > > > > > > > > -- > -- > > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan'l Danehy-Oakes — 16 Jul 2002, 20:42 follows, by subject match David A Baird > David A Baird wrote: > Only 97K - hmmm, I'd always envidaged it as being much later, of the order > of several million. But then again, I was thinking of a natural demise of > the sun although in this re-read I noticed that the Hierodules have > 'planted' a black hole in there to keep Urth at bay. The 97 Kyear figure is _very_ debateable, and I for one hold it to be completely implausible ... we're talking a sufficient amount of time so that the ruins of ancient human civilizations have been uplifted in the bodies of new mountains (which, of course, are then carved into the figures of Urth's vain rulers). That doesn't happen in less than multiple millions of years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Millman — 17 Jul 2002, 08:29 follows, by subject match Dan'l Danehy-Oakes Blattid, I believe that you've forgotten "The Cat", which is told by one of the Stewards Odilo (father, son, or grandson--I'm having trouble remembering which). At least one of the Odilos, of course, appears in _The Urth of the New Sun_. And Inire is key to the story itself, as is Chatelaine Sancha, whom Thecla mentions at one point. Welcome, Dave. There are several extant brown book stories not given in BotNS or UotNS; they were mostly pub- lished as Cheap Street chapbooks. I've written about them in the past, so the full details ought to be in the archives--searching on "Cheap Street" is probably the easiest approach. Nacre On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes replied to Dave Baird, writing: > [snip] > > (At least one short story, "The Map," deals > with a character from New Sun. At least one, > "The Night Chough," deals with a character > from Long/Short. I believe -- though I > haven't tracked all of them down -- that the > other short stories set in the Lupiverse are > simply that -- "set in the same universe.") > > [snip] > > --Blattid ------------------------------------------------------------------------------