{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3374", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3374, "subject": "inhuma in brazil", "messages": 9, "voices": 5, "first": "2002-07-20T17:35:48+00:00", "last": "2002-08-27T12:38:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "j e", "address": "lo_phan17 at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2002-07-20T17:35:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reading _Brazilian Adventure_ late last night (by Peter Fleming - about an \nexploration of central Brazil in the early thities) there's a section where \nthe writer descibes some of the birds they see while travelling on the \nAraguaya river. Among the birds is the inhuma, which is:\n\n...a gigantic and mysterious fowl, bigger than a cock capercailzie but built \non more or less the same lines. These would take refuge in the tops of trees \nand thence utter a strange, murmurous and rather asthmatic crooning. Whether \nthey are good to eat I can not say.\n\nI tried a google search on inhuma and Brazil but all I came up with is a \nreference to a Lake Inhuma. Still, I'm always thrilled to find something \nlike this - a possible clue. Like the time I found a section on decision \ntrees in a book on math for engineers. There was a \"source to sink\" diagram \nwhich struck me as similar to the kabbalah's tree of life. From that I had a \nmoment of intuition about Severian's judgement in Urth. When Tzadkiel says \n(I paraphrase)_that we have examined your future and determined that the \nprobability of your bringing a new sun is high_, I see the corridors of time \nviewed as a great decision tree. (It's interesting that the masters of Briah \nacknowledge some uncertainty and of course it fits the god does play dice \nmodel).\n\nWhile I'm de-lurked here, I have another conjecture. Does Olivine's manner \nof speech indicate we are to hear it as an echoing from an incompletly \nconfigured voice generator rather than a processing defect where she begins \na sentence, doesn't register that it's begun and repeats it. Her character \nmakes me sad and to think of her voice beginning as an hollow, broken sound \nthat echos just a little more audibly makes me want to weep.\n\nI think the focus on speech mannerisms is an effort of Wolfe's to have us \nhear the words, rather than read them flat. And there is likely a philosophy \nbehind it rather than it just being a device to give depth to a realization. \nI don't find any of them embarrassing or laughable as some have stated here. \nIn the interview with Nick Gevers recently he said Remora and Incus were \nbased on people he'd met. Anyone we might have heard of?\n\n\nJoe Eull" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-07-22T17:54:45+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Joe Eull said:\n\"Among the birds is the inhuma, which is:\n...a gigantic and mysterious fowl, bigger than a cock capercailzie but built\non more or less the same lines. These would take refuge in the tops of trees\nand thence utter a strange, murmurous and rather asthmatic crooning. Whether\nthey are good to eat I can not say.\"\nI tried a google search on inhuma and Brazil but all I came up with is a\nreference to a Lake Inhuma.\n\nhttp://www.net-serv.com/mcintyre/brazilian_adventure.htm\n\nThe only link I could find on this subject was a site created by an\nelementary school teacher on Peter Fleming's book. She describes the Inhumas\nas \"mysterious\", \"said to have talons on it's wings\", and an \"object of some\nsort of superstition among the Carajas\"\n\nPerhaps a book on the Carajas would yield more information. But this does\nsmell like the sort of thing that would attract Wolfe's attention.\n\nNice find!\n\n--- Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Phoebe Davis", "address": "meezer_gal at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-07-22T22:54:51+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A bird question - how wonderful! The inhuma is more commonly known as the Horned\nScreamer, Anhima cornuta. I saw the link that Crush found but was dissatisfied -- I\nwanted to see a picture of the bird as I wanted to see a picture of Oreb some posts back.\n I found that Inhuma and Inhumas are cities or at least villages in Brazil - their\ncurrent weather can be viewed on the internet. Determined, I kept going. The connection\nbetween the horned screamer and the inhuma, which I surmised from a link using yet\nanother google search, was confirmed by this excerpt from the\ncapoeiradobrasil.com.br/dicionario of inhuma or Iúna, translated by Google: \n\n<<< Iúna - s. f. Corruptela of inhuma or anhuma . [ Of tupi ña ' one , ' black bird ',\nwith aglutinação of the article ] 1. Anseriforme bird, of the family of the anhimídeos (\nAnhuma cornuta ). Master Maneca Brandão (\" I sing It of the Iúna - the Saga of a Capoeira\n\", Itabuna/BA, 1ª ed.) he adds: \" symbol of the wit and the matreirice , (...) the bird\nreally exists and inhabits heaths, charcos, lagoons, etc. The term \" Iúna \" is one\ncorruptela of its true name: Inhuma or Anhuma . It has the transport of a Peru, with long\nlegs and feet of great fingers, with two carpianos esporões in each wing, beyond a long\ncórneo thorn in the high one of the head. Its plumage is bruno blackish and black. [\nSin.: alicorne, anhima, cametau, cauintã, cavitantau, cauintau, inhaúma, inhuma, licorne,\nunicorne, unicórnio. ] 2. Name given to one has touched of berimbau, very melodioso, used\nin the game of the capoeira. Touch created by Bimba Master, for rasteiro, on game and\nwith balloons, used only for masters of Capoeira. >>>\n\nAccording to the description, the horned screamer is similar to other almost prehistoric\nlooking birds of South America – it has claws on each wing (the carpianos esporoes) as\nwell as a hornlike (how apropos) extrusion, called a thorn above, on its head. It has\nbeen partially domesticated and used to protect flocks of chickens. It certainly has\nmystical associations for the Carajas and some connection to the game or dance of\ncapoeirado, although links are in Portugese or non-existant. Here are a couple of links\n-the first to a photo, the second to a drawing, the third to a recording of its most\nastounding call: \nhttp://www.stockpix.com/stock/animals/endangeredspecies/9601.htm\nhttp://www.interaktv.com/birds/speciesaccounts/hornedscreamer.html\nhttp://www.junglephotos.com/sounds/hscreamersound.html\n\nAfter my research (it was a slow day at work) I personally believe that the similarity in\nname between our flyers and the obscure name of a rather prosaic domesticated bird to be\ncoincidence. Glad to be convinced otherwise. Inhuman, Inhuma seems clear to me.\nDifferent of course from the night chough which seems clearly picked for the species’\nmythological connections. IMHO of course! \n\nPhoebe" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- James Wynn wrote:\nJoe Eull said:\n\"Among the birds is the inhuma, which is:\n...a gigantic and mysterious fowl, bigger than a cock capercailzie but built\non more or less the same lines. These would take refuge in the tops of trees\nand thence utter a strange, murmurous and rather asthmatic crooning. Whether\nthey are good to eat I can not say.\"\nI tried a google search on inhuma and Brazil but all I came up with is a\nreference to a Lake Inhuma.\n\nhttp://www.net-serv.com/mcintyre/brazilian_adventure.htm\n\nThe only link I could find on this subject was a site created by an\nelementary school teacher on Peter Fleming's book. She describes the Inhumas\nas \"mysterious\", \"said to have talons on it's wings\", and an \"object of some\nsort of superstition among the Carajas\"\n\nPerhaps a book on the Carajas would yield more information. But this does\nsmell like the sort of thing that would attract Wolfe's attention.\n\nNice find!\n\n--- Crush\n\n\n\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-07-23T19:31:58+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Phoebe Davis said:\nIt certainly has mystical associations for the Carajas and some connection\nto the game or dance of capoeirado, although links are in Portugese or\nnon-existant...After my research (it was a slow day at work) I personally\nbelieve that the similarity in name between our flyers and the obscure name\nof a rather prosaic domesticated bird to be\ncoincidence.\n\nI'm a little sorry to find out it's not a crypto-zoological creature. You're\nprobably right. It probably has nothing to do with Lupine Inhuma, but I'm\nstill going to make it a long-term goal to learn what \"mystical\nassociations\" they bore for the Carajas.\n\n--Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Phoebe Davis", "address": "meezer_gal at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-07-23T20:44:54+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Great -- I'd love to know what you find out.\n\nPhoebe" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- James Wynn wrote:\nPhoebe Davis said:\nIt certainly has mystical associations for the Carajas and some connection\nto the game or dance of capoeirado, although links are in Portugese or\nnon-existant...After my research (it was a slow day at work) I personally\nbelieve that the similarity in name between our flyers and the obscure name\nof a rather prosaic domesticated bird to be\ncoincidence.\n\nI'm a little sorry to find out it's not a crypto-zoological creature. You're\nprobably right. It probably has nothing to do with Lupine Inhuma, but I'm\nstill going to make it a long-term goal to learn what \"mystical\nassociations\" they bore for the Carajas.\n\n--Crush\n\n\n\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-07-26T22:57:38+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- James Wynn wrote:\nPhoebe Davis said:\nIt certainly has mystical associations for the Carajas and some\nconnection\nto the game or dance of capoeirado, although links are in Portugese or\nnon-existant...After my research (it was a slow day at work) I\npersonally\nbelieve that the similarity in name between our flyers and the obscure\nname\nof a rather prosaic domesticated bird to be\ncoincidence." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think you're right that it's a coincidence, but \"prosaic\"? Did you\nlook at a picture, like the one at\n?\nWell, maybe it's no weirder-looking than a turkey.\n...\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fernando Q. Gouvea", "address": "fqgouvea at colby.edu" }, "date": "2002-07-26T23:22:59+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm 100% sure that the common name is a coincidence. Not only is the\nderivation of inhumo/inhuma/inhumi pretty clearly from in+human, but also\nthe Brazilian bird is i-nhu-ma, with the \"nh\" getting pronounced like the\nspanish n with a tilde. The completely different sound is the reason why I\nnever made the connection even though I'm sure I had heard about the bird.\n(The name is presumably from some native language; it doesn't sound like\nPortuguese.) \n\nFernando" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Fernando Q. Gouvea \nDepartment of Mathematics Editor, FOCUS and MAA Online\nColby College Mathematical Association of America\nWaterville, ME 04901 http://www.maa.org\nfqgouvea at colby.edu \n==========================================================\n\nIf you live to the age of a hundred you have it made because very few\npeople die past the age of a hundred.\n -- George Burns\n\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-08-21T22:11:32+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ok. I think it is (to me) absolutely conclusive that Gene Wolfe took the\nword \"Inhuma\" from the Amazonian bird described in Peter Fleming's\n\"Brazilian Adventure\". In fact, I think it is probable that \"Brazilian\nAdventure\" was his source.\n\nhttp://www.visualclick.com/~jwynn/GeneWolfe/LongSun/\n\n-- Crush\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Phoebe Davis [mailto:meezer_gal at yahoo.com]\nSent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:45 PM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil\n\nGreat -- I'd love to know what you find out.\n\nPhoebe" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- James Wynn wrote:\nPhoebe Davis said:\nIt certainly has mystical associations for the Carajas and some connection\nto the game or dance of capoeirado, although links are in Portugese or\nnon-existant...After my research (it was a slow day at work) I personally\nbelieve that the similarity in name between our flyers and the obscure\nname\nof a rather prosaic domesticated bird to be\ncoincidence.\n\nI'm a little sorry to find out it's not a crypto-zoological creature." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You're" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "probably right. It probably has nothing to do with Lupine Inhuma, but I'm\nstill going to make it a long-term goal to learn what \"mystical\nassociations\" they bore for the Carajas.\n\n--Crush\n\n\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Phoebe Davis", "address": "meezer_gal at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-08-27T12:38:43+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thank you Crush - excellent detective work and a compelling conclusion. I'm a believer!\n\nPhoebe" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- James Wynn wrote:\nOk. I think it is (to me) absolutely conclusive that Gene Wolfe took the\nword \"Inhuma\" from the Amazonian bird described in Peter Fleming's\n\"Brazilian Adventure\". In fact, I think it is probable that \"Brazilian\nAdventure\" was his source.\n\nhttp://www.visualclick.com/~jwynn/GeneWolfe/LongSun/\n\n-- Crush\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Phoebe Davis [mailto:meezer_gal at yahoo.com]\nSent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:45 PM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: RE: (urth) inhuma in brazil\n\nGreat -- I'd love to know what you find out.\n\nPhoebe\n\n--- James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Phoebe Davis said:\nIt certainly has mystical associations for the Carajas and some connection\nto the game or dance of capoeirado, although links are in Portugese or\nnon-existant...After my research (it was a slow day at work) I personally\nbelieve that the similarity in name between our flyers and the obscure\nname\nof a rather prosaic domesticated bird to be\ncoincidence.\n\nI'm a little sorry to find out it's not a crypto-zoological creature." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You're\nprobably right. It probably has nothing to do with Lupine Inhuma, but I'm\nstill going to make it a long-term goal to learn what \"mystical\nassociations\" they bore for the Carajas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "--Crush\n\n\n\n\n\n--" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "__________________________________________________\nDo You Yahoo!?\nYahoo! Health - Feel better, live better\nhttp://health.yahoo.com\n\n--\n\n\n\n\n-- " } ] } ] }