{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3379",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3379,
    "subject": "Severian's Daughter & Thais",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2002-07-29T15:36:50+00:00",
    "last": "2002-07-30T17:20:55+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0207-1466@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net"
      },
      "date": "2002-07-29T15:36:50+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Severian's Daughter & Thais",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 06:50 PM 7/27/2002 -0700, you wrote:\nWell, as I glance back over UTNS, it seems unlikely\nthat Thais could be Severian's kid by Dorcas.  The\nlast he saw of her was a decade or so before leaving\nto get the New Sun, and he returns several more\ndecades latter, if poor shriveled Valaria is any\nindication.  Thais is in Severian's estimation \"fairly\nyoung\", so perhaps a grandchild?\nJ"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "         Hmmm. Well, I've always thought Severian was his own grandfather \nsomehow, and that was the outcome of his relation with Dorcas. I can't \nrecall how I came up with that -- maybe it was just the general ambience of \nthe novels that led me to it. But if that's right, it would seem to \neliminate Thais from direct consideration. Set me straight, someone!\n         Alga's contribution on Thais is interesting. THE Ship is clearly \nsome kind of image of the Church, moving through of history, ascending to \n\"heaven,\" bringing the \"new sun,\" etc. So, what about other ships? Do they \nhave symbolic meaning? One would think so, this being Wolfe and all. Is \nThais the sailor a replay of the converted Thais the Saint, with her being \na sailor on a ship a replay of her work in the church/convent?\n         One of Severian's youthful buddies (whose name I cannot call up at \nthe moment; Eata?) is captain of the ship, iirc. (I'm 15 years removed from \nmy second reading; gotta read'em again!) Is he Peter to Severian's \n\"Christ\"? Or at least a local pastor of a small ship linked to The Ship \nsymbolically? Is this worth an investigation?\n         (For those who don't know, Church as Noah's Ark and Ship is common \ncoin of symbolism. The interior of a church is called a \"nave.\")\n\nNutria\n\nNutria"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0207-1485@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Roy C. Lackey",
        "address": "rclackey at stic.net"
      },
      "date": "2002-07-30T17:20:55+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Severian's Daughter & Thais",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0207-1466@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Nutria wrote:\n        Hmmm. Well, I've always thought Severian was his own grandfather\nsomehow, and that was the outcome of his relation with Dorcas. I can't\nrecall how I came up with that -- maybe it was just the general ambience of\nthe novels that led me to it. But if that's right, it would seem to\neliminate Thais from direct consideration. Set me straight, someone!"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "If you have long held the Sev-is-his-own-grandpa theory, just ignore this.\nBut if you picked up the notion from this list about three years ago, then\nthe fault is mine. I posted just such a theory then. I say \"fault\" because\nthe theory was based on the assumption that there was a baby in the basket\nDorcas had with her when Sev last saw her, that the baby was hers, and Sev\nwas the father. In the normal course of things, that just isn't possible.\nThere just wasn't enough time between Sev's first encounter with her (late\nwinter/early spring) and when he saw the basket (late summer/early autumn)\nfor them to have produced a baby.\n\nMy apologies if I led anyone astray. Of course Sev might otherwise be his\nown grandpa, but my theory was wrong.\n\n-Roy"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}