{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3380", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3380, "subject": "Thais the countessa", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-07-29T15:40:38+00:00", "last": "2002-07-30T01:07:58+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-07-29T15:40:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Thais the countessa", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Recent talk of Thais as being Severian's daughter, and/or a sailor . . .\n\nI thought that Thais was the best candidate for the character \"the\ncountessa\" in \"Eschatology and Genesis.\" In that play, the character\nspeaks of having been accompanied by Praetorian Guards when she saw a\nstrange man on the Road of Air in the House Absolute (II, 228) . . . in\nURTH, Severian enters the House Absolute, and on the Path of Air he looks\ndown to see a lovely woman with black hair, weeping while surrounded by\nPraetorian Guards (293).\n\nEven if this is true, Severian does not mention that Thais is that woman he\nsaw.\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\n29 copies of \"Snake's-hands\" until OP!\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jennifer Van Goethem", "address": "screeminwillie at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2002-07-29T16:37:01+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Thais the countessa", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Michael Andre-Driussi \nwrote:\nRecent talk of Thais as being Severian's daughter,\nand/or a sailor . . .\n\nI thought that Thais was the best candidate for the\ncharacter \"the\ncountessa\" in \"Eschatology and Genesis.\" In that\nplay, the character\nspeaks of having been accompanied by Praetorian\nGuards when she saw a\nstrange man on the Road of Air in the House Absolute\n(II, 228) . . . in\nURTH, Severian enters the House Absolute, and on the\nPath of Air he looks\ndown to see a lovely woman with black hair, weeping\nwhile surrounded by\nPraetorian Guards (293).\n\nEven if this is true, Severian does not mention that\nThais is that woman he\nsaw.\n\n=mantis=" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting. I can see the connection of this \"raven\nhaired\", \"olive skinned woman\" to the play. If she is\nThais, however, it does seem Severian would recognize\nher later on the boat.\n\nI had always thought of this weeping woman surrounded\nby Praetorians as a Katherine of the torturers, mother\nof Severian. I bit of a limb walk, I know, but the\nview is cool.\n\nI do like the idea of Thais being a coutesan/contessa.\n The name certainly supports that, if there is\nanything to the \"Th\" saint names used for Thecla and\nher sister.\n\nThais does have something to hide, which is quite\nintriguing. She reveals nothing about herself on the\nboat other than her name. A fact that Odillo points\nout with some consternation somewhere in that\nsequence. A woman of mystery, that Thais.\n\nJ " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at charter.net" }, "date": "2002-07-30T01:07:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Thais the countessa", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jen Van Gee again, still in a genealogical vein, writing:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Interesting. I can see the connection of this \"raven\nhaired\", \"olive skinned woman\" to the play. If she is\nThais, however, it does seem Severian would recognize\nher later on the boat.\n\nI had always thought of this weeping woman surrounded\nby Praetorians as a Katherine of the torturers, mother\nof Severian. It's a bit of a limb walk, I know, but the\nview is cool." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, don't walk too far out on that limb or you'll displace me because I've\nbeen arguing the Catherine-Contessa connection for years, both here and\nelsewhere.\n\nFor starters there's a physical resemblance between Catherine, Severian's\nmother, and the woman arrested--for now let's call her \"Carina,\" the actual\nname of the contessa in _Eschatology and Genesis_.\n\nSecondarily, Carina (or rather its homonymic variant, Karina) is not only\nthe Scandinavian equivalent of Catherine, it's also a nested or cryptonymic\nname (that is, the letters c-a-r-i-n-a can all be found in Catherine). The\nevents of E & G being meant to function as typological foreshadowing, Carina\ntherefore equals Catherine.\n\nNow for some speculation as to what it all means: Catherine, daughter of\nValeria and Dux Caesidius (see my NYRSF essay, \"Catherine and Beyond\" for\ndetails), is being \"arrested\" by the agents of Father Inire so he (who knows\nshe will eventually give birth to Severian) can ensure she will not be\nkilled in the great flood about to be brought on by the arrival of the New\nSun. Handed over to the Pelerines on the other side of the Corridors of Time\n(there's evidence the Cumaean is the monials' secret leader), Princess\nCatherine does not enjoy her captive status, runs away, meets Ouen--and the\nnet result is Severian--plus the little sister who may be \"Thais.\"\n\nMantis speculates in LU that the woman Severian hears crying in the\nCorridors of Time is Catherine herself. Perhaps it's because she knows she\ncan now never return to the drowned world of her parents--only, if for a\nlittle while, the guild in which her son will grow to manhood.\n\nRobert Borski" } ] } ] }