Subject: (urth) Thais the countessa

From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:40:38 +0000

Recent talk of Thais as being Severian's daughter, and/or a sailor . . .

I thought that Thais was the best candidate for the character "the
countessa" in "Eschatology and Genesis."   In that play, the character
speaks of having been accompanied by Praetorian Guards when she saw a
strange man on the Road of Air in the House Absolute (II, 228) . . . in
URTH, Severian enters the House Absolute, and on the Path of Air he looks
down to see a lovely woman with black hair, weeping while surrounded by
Praetorian Guards (293).

Even if this is true, Severian does not mention that Thais is that woman he
saw.

=mantis=

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From: Jennifer Van Goethem <screeminwillie at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:37:01 +0000

--- Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
> Even if this is true, Severian does not mention that

Interesting.  I can see the connection of this "raven
haired", "olive skinned woman" to the play.  If she is
Thais, however, it does seem Severian would recognize
her later on the boat.

I had always thought of this weeping woman surrounded
by Praetorians as a Katherine of the torturers, mother
of Severian.  I bit of a limb walk, I know, but the
view is cool.

I do like the idea of Thais being a coutesan/contessa.
 The name certainly supports that, if there is
anything to the "Th" saint names used for Thecla and
her sister.

Thais does have something to hide, which is quite
intriguing.  She reveals nothing about herself on the
boat other than her name. A fact that Odillo points
out with some consternation somewhere in that
sequence.  A woman of mystery, that Thais.

J 

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From: Robert Borski <rborski at charter.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:07:58 +0000

Jen Van Gee again, still in a genealogical vein, writing:

> of Severian.  It's a bit of a limb walk, I know, but the
> view is cool.

Well, don't walk too far out on that limb or you'll displace me because I've
been arguing the Catherine-Contessa connection for years, both here and
elsewhere.

For starters there's a physical resemblance between Catherine, Severian's
mother, and the woman arrested--for now let's call her "Carina," the actual
name of the contessa in _Eschatology and Genesis_.

Secondarily, Carina (or rather its homonymic variant, Karina) is not only
the Scandinavian equivalent of Catherine, it's also a nested or cryptonymic
name (that is, the letters c-a-r-i-n-a can all be found in Catherine). The
events of E & G being meant to function as typological foreshadowing, Carina
therefore equals Catherine.

Now for some speculation as to what it all means: Catherine, daughter of
Valeria and Dux Caesidius (see my NYRSF essay, "Catherine and Beyond" for
details), is being "arrested" by the agents of Father Inire so he (who knows
she will eventually give birth to Severian) can ensure she will not be
killed in the great flood about to be brought on by the arrival of the New
Sun. Handed over to the Pelerines on the other side of the Corridors of Time
(there's evidence the Cumaean is the monials' secret leader), Princess
Catherine does not enjoy her captive status, runs away, meets Ouen--and the
net result is Severian--plus the little sister who may be "Thais."

Mantis speculates in LU that the woman Severian hears crying in the
Corridors of Time is Catherine herself. Perhaps it's because she knows she
can now never return to the drowned world of her parents--only, if for a
little while, the guild in which her son will grow to manhood.

Robert Borski

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