{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3408", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3408, "subject": "Malrubius and the spirit (was Silk/Malrubius)", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-08-17T01:11:37+00:00", "last": "2002-08-17T04:10:00+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-08-17T01:11:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Malrubius and the spirit (was Silk/Malrubius)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Craig wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In an interview, GW mentions a possible connection\nbetween Silk and Master Malrubius (I can't locate the\ninterview at the moment). I was wondering if anyone\nelse had determined how/why this connection would be\nmade. Why, for example, would an aquastor (as I recall\nMalrubius is) Silk be used to communicate with\nSeverian?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Christopher Culver wrote:\nI assume that Severian's incidental visions of Malrubius were actually\nof Silk, but the machine which saves Severian from the Ascians chose to\ncreate an aquastor of Malrubius because Sev's visions of\nMalrubius-really-Silk had made such an impression on him." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "IIRC, without seeing the source text again, my impression was quite\ndifferent. That is, I did not see it as being a case of: astral-Silkhorn\nis the aquastor Malrubius that Severian sees at times in TBOTNS; I thought\nit was a direct link to the \"Malrubius saw an invisible spirit in the\nshadows\" part of TBOTNS.\n\nHere it is, in fact. In IV, ch. XXIII, paragraph beginning \"Master\nMalrubius was, as I realize now, a very sick man before he died.\" That\nparagraph ends \"Master Malrubius suffered real illness, which is to see\ndeath in shadows.\"\n\nNext: \"As he stood at his little table, one felt that he was conscious of\nsomeone standing behind him. He looked straight to the front, never\nturning his head and hardly moving a shoulder, and he spoke as much for\nthat unknown listener as for us.\"\n\nTwo paragraphs later, he drops a slate pencil. \"He did not stoop to pick\nit up,fearful, I think, that in stooping he might glimpse the invisible\npresence.\"\n\nThis is what I made of the linkage between astral Silkhorn and Malrubius:\nthat Malrubius had somehow seen astral Silk.\n\nBut this is problematic, since in RETURN TO THE WHORL Severian pesters the\nastral Silk into seeing his dog (RTTW 396), which confirms that it must be\n2 years prior to Severian's Reign; yet Malrubius died years before that\n(I've estimated around 10 years before). We don't have any suggestion that\nSilk met Malrubius, nor that he took any trip to Urth that was ten years in\nthe past (and I'm one of those who argue that Silk's astral projection is\npurely across space and not at all across time -- so it is impossible for\nSilk to visit Malrubius).\n\nThen Master Gurloes catches Severian with Oreb and asks him what it is and\nSeverian says it is Master Malrubius's. Then Silk touches Gurloes and\nGurloes gets spooked (perhaps linking to Gurloes's odd behaviors mentioned\nby Severian in TBOTNS).\n\nSo this would be the point in the text that directly makes the \"Severian\nassociates Silk with Malrubius\" statement.\n\nWith this we can see that, before Severian ever saw the Malrubius aquastor,\nhe saw astral-Silk (dressed like a torturer); and although Severian had\nbeen told by Silk that he was not a spirit of the dead (RTTW 390 and\nbefore), when Gurloes catches Severian with Oreb, Severian basically tells\nGurloes that the spirit of dead Malrubius is there (as a bluff or as a true\nbelief remains open for debate; but in any case, the look of astral-Silk\nmust be pretty close to that of Malrubius for the claim to have any effect,\nand it does have effect in that it spooks Gurloes).\n\nChristopher Culver's point about the ship-made-aquastor, while it might be\na tad off in the details (Severian had been impressed by a Malrubius ghost\na few times before he met that one -- it wasn't the first time), is\ninteresting in that it points to the likelihood of different sources for\neach Malrubius spirit: the ship-made-aquastor is a \"techno-ghost\" and the\none who visits Severian sleeping by the campfire, and leaves a warm spot,\nis probably a real ghost; etc. IIRC Sev saw Malrubius at least one time in\nthe corridors of time.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ian Bratt", "address": "ian.bratt at colorado.edu" }, "date": "2002-08-17T04:10:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Malrubius and the spirit (was Silk/Malrubius)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nTo: \nSent: Friday, August 16, 2002 7:11 PM\nSubject: (urth) Malrubius and the spirit (was Silk/Malrubius)\nMantis wrote:\n...when Gurloes catches Severian with Oreb, Severian basically tells\nGurloes that the spirit of dead Malrubius is there (as a bluff or as a\ntrue\nbelief remains open for debate; but in any case, the look of astral-Silk\nmust be pretty close to that of Malrubius for the claim to have any\neffect,\nand it does have effect in that it spooks Gurloes)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Has anyone considered the possibility that Silk and Malrubius are distant\nkin? We know embryo-Silk was chosen to be stored on the whorl for known\nleadership abilities. Malrubius seems to have been quite a leader and\nimportant figure in his prime. Could it be that Malrubius is a\ngreat-great-etc-nephew of Silk's? That would explain the resemblance. I\nknow it's pretty far-fetched and can't really be proved but it could be the\nrelationship that GW hinted at in his interview.\n\n-Ian" } ] } ] }