{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3433",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3433,
    "subject": "male hyacinth",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2002-09-02T08:29:43+00:00",
    "last": "2002-09-02T09:56:20+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0209-1634@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2002-09-02T08:29:43+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) male hyacinth",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male hyacinth, and I was \ntaken aback to discover that someone else thought that up independently - it \nwas kind of a joke.  Let me briefly go over why I thought so: right before \nSilk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of statues of boy \ntoys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that I normally \nassociate with Musk.  But Hyacinthus is the same kind of mythic figure: male \nlover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind.  But instead of Musk, he \nimmediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts.  Then later, in Calde of the \nLong Sun ,Patera Quetzal, when Silk claims that he slept with a woman, says he \ndoesn't believe that his augur has done that.  It sounds like nothing, but \nWolfe has a ton of those double entendres in his work.  I'm just surprised \nthat someone else came up with the same thematic idea - the evidence isn't as \nsketchy as the evidence that suggest that Patera Pike is Blood's father, but \nit's pretty sketchy.  I don't see the chem part as convincing, but I think \nHyacinth could certainly be an ex-male who had a little transformation enacted \nand it explains the sterility of Silk's relationship.\nI don't know how seriously to take these things, really.  Not as seriously as \na take a lot of the other stuff I post.\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0209-1637@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "matthew.malthouse",
        "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "2002-09-02T09:56:20+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) male hyacinth",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0209-1634@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 02/09/2002 09:29:43 maa32 wrote:\nA couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male hyacinth, and I\nwas\ntaken aback to discover that someone else thought that up independently -\nit\nwas kind of a joke.  Let me briefly go over why I thought so: right\nbefore\nSilk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of statues of\nboy\ntoys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that I\nnormally\nassociate with Musk.  But Hyacinthus is the same kind of mythic figure:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "male"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind.  But instead of Musk,\nhe\nimmediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I too the statuary, Hyacinth's potential androgeny etc as re-inforcement\nof Musk's character and lifestyle.  I'm far from convinced that - even\nwith Wolfe's infamous multi-layered work - there's any need to see more to\nit than that.\n\nIf one posits that Hyacinth is ex-male, male , chem male or female one has\nto answer what purpose it serves.  More what purpose would it serve to\nhave Silk fall in love with such a being.  That would seem contrary to\nWolfe's normal path in such matters and would require explanation.\n\nMatthew"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}