{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3485", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3485, "subject": "robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-10-15T17:06:48+00:00", "last": "2002-10-17T01:20:54+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-10-15T17:06:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Lest anyone suppose I was joking when I wrote of proud Jonas wanting to awe\nJolenta with his repaired shine, the \"These Are the Jokes\" section of\nCASTLE OF DAYS offers some suggestive material.\n\nIn the joke that Jonas tells, a woman interviews three sailors to find out\nwhat each one wants the most. The first says power, the second says\n(social) polish, and the third says love.\n\nThe woman laughs and says that they are all robots. The first sailor says\nthat is true, and he can see how she figured it out from the first two\nanswers, since power and polish are things all robots look for, but he\ncouldn't figure out how she detected a robot in the third answer.\n\nShe says it is because she began life by looking for power and polish and\nwound up just like the third sailor. Then the woman and the third sailor\ngo off for a drink and neither of them ever came back to the ship.\n\nNow this joke does a number of things. It establishes a hierarchy, almost\nlike Mazlow's [sp?] hierarchy (which starts with food, then shelter, etc.),\nbut for robots: \"power\" becomes \"food\" in addition to \"recognized\nauthority\" (because robots run on energy); \"polish\" becomes \"physical\nappearance\" in addition to \"social graces\" (because the robots have skins\nthat shine -- the Tin Woodman becomes nickle-plated on his elevation, and\nhe is always getting polished, getting new accessories, etc.); but what is\n\"love\" in robot terms?\n\nWell, in addition to that answer, love is also love, and something which\nsome (perhaps not all) robots can desire.\n\nNext, there is the linkage of women to robots, which might be equal to a\nlinkage of humans to robots, or it might be a more gender specific link\n(see Disch's notes on \"the robot as housewife\" in THE DREAMS OUR STUFF IS\nMADE OF). The woman's reported life experience reinforces the hierarchy of\npower, polish, love (whether this is an ascent or a descent is left open).\n\nFinally there is an impression of a human/robot couple.\n\nAll of which is being told by Jonas.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2002-10-16T01:55:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mused mantis:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In the joke that Jonas tells, a woman interviews three sailors to find out\nwhat each one wants the most. The first says power, the second says\n(social) polish, and the third says love.\n\nThe woman laughs and says that they are all robots. The first sailor says\nthat is true, and he can see how she figured it out from the first two\nanswers, since power and polish are things all robots look for, but he\ncouldn't figure out how she detected a robot in the third answer." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Now this joke does a number of things. It establishes a hierarchy, almost\nlike Mazlow's [sp?] hierarchy (which starts with food, then shelter,\netc.),\nbut for robots: \"power\" becomes \"food\" in addition to \"recognized\nauthority\" (because robots run on energy); \"polish\" becomes \"physical\nappearance\" in addition to \"social graces\" (because the robots have skins\nthat shine -- the Tin Woodman becomes nickle-plated on his elevation, and\nhe is always getting polished, getting new accessories, etc.); but what is\n\"love\" in robot terms?\n\nWell, in addition to that answer, love is also love, and something which\nsome (perhaps not all) robots can desire." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But aren't you forgetting that the TW desired love too, as well as\npolish--his first desire was a heart, to love but also to be loved. And he\nbecame Emperor of the Winkies, so he got power too.\n\nMark, Edward !IV was 6'3\" and \"broad-breasted,\" a giant of his time. Richard\nIII at probably about the norm, 5'7\" or so, would have been dwarfed.\n\nAlso, just curious, does Smart own a cat?\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org" }, "date": "2002-10-16T01:46:46+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Alice K. Turner wrote:\nMark, Edward !IV was 6'3\" and \"broad-\nbreasted,\" a giant of his time. Richard\nIII at probably about the norm, 5'7\"\nor so, would have been dwarfed.\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sorry if I wasn't clear, alga. I meant primarily\nto suggest that Richard may have looked, and per-\nhaps felt, like a child next to Edward. As it\nhappens, I couldn't remember whether or not he\nwas below average height for his time; thanks for\nproviding the information.\n\nMark" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-10-16T03:45:27+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "alga asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, just curious, does Smart own a cat?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, he doesn't. At least there is no mention of one in the text. Why?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-10-16T16:47:37+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis wrote:\nIn the joke that Jonas tells, a woman interviews three sailors to find out\nwhat each one wants the most. The first says power, the second says\n(social) polish, and the third says love.\n\nThe woman laughs and says that they are all robots. The first sailor says\nthat is true, and he can see how she figured it out from the first two\nanswers, since power and polish are things all robots look for, but he\ncouldn't figure out how she detected a robot in the third answer.\n\nShe says it is because she began life by looking for power and polish and\nwound up just like the third sailor. Then the woman and the third sailor\ngo off for a drink and neither of them ever came back to the ship." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So what is the joke? We know that Wolfe has a warped sense of humor, and\nthat Jonas is telling the joke. It only dawned on me today that the woman's\nlast line is also the punch line. We've heard this joke before, in PEACE.\nThe one Weer told Lois: \"I knew we were mechanical engineers, but I didn't\nthink we'd wind up like this.\"\n\nShe's a robot, too.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2002-10-17T01:20:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "alga asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also, just curious, does Smart own a cat?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "No, he doesn't. At least there is no mention of one in the text. Why?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, nothing really:\n\nFor I will consider my cat Jeoffry\nFor he is the servant of the Living God duly and daily serving him...\n\nChristopher Smart\n\n-alga" } ] } ] }