Subject: (urth) robot desires -- Jonas tells a joke

From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:06:48 +0000

Lest anyone suppose I was joking when I wrote of proud Jonas wanting to awe
Jolenta with his repaired shine, the "These Are the Jokes" section of
CASTLE OF DAYS offers some suggestive material.

In the joke that Jonas tells, a woman interviews three sailors to find out
what each one wants the most.  The first says power, the second says
(social) polish, and the third says love.

The woman laughs and says that they are all robots.  The first sailor says
that is true, and he can see how she figured it out from the first two
answers, since power and polish are things all robots look for, but he
couldn't figure out how she detected a robot in the third answer.

She says it is because she began life by looking for power and polish and
wound up just like the third sailor.  Then the woman and the third sailor
go off for a drink and neither of them ever came back to the ship.

Now this joke does a number of things.  It establishes a hierarchy, almost
like Mazlow's [sp?] hierarchy (which starts with food, then shelter, etc.),
but for robots: "power" becomes "food" in addition to "recognized
authority" (because robots run on energy); "polish" becomes "physical
appearance" in addition to "social graces" (because the robots have skins
that shine -- the Tin Woodman becomes nickle-plated on his elevation, and
he is always getting polished, getting new accessories, etc.); but what is
"love" in robot terms?

Well, in addition to that answer, love is also love, and something which
some (perhaps not all) robots can desire.

Next, there is the linkage of women to robots, which might be equal to a
linkage of humans to robots, or it might be a more gender specific link
(see Disch's notes on "the robot as housewife" in THE DREAMS OUR STUFF IS
MADE OF).  The woman's reported life experience reinforces the hierarchy of
power, polish, love (whether this is an ascent or a descent is left open).

Finally there is an impression of a human/robot couple.

All of which is being told by Jonas.

=mantis=

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From: Alice K. Turner <aturner6 at nyc.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:55:23 +0000

> couldn't figure out how she detected a robot in the third answer.

[snip]

> some (perhaps not all) robots can desire.

But aren't you forgetting that the TW desired love too, as well as
polish--his first desire was a heart, to love but also to be loved. And he
became Emperor of the Winkies, so he got power too.

Mark, Edward !IV was 6'3" and "broad-breasted," a giant of his time. Richard
III at probably about the norm, 5'7" or so, would have been dwarfed.

Also, just curious, does Smart own a cat?

-alga

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From: Mark Millman <millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:46:46 +0000

> or so, would have been dwarfed.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, alga.  I meant primarily
to suggest that Richard may have looked, and per-
haps felt, like a child next to Edward.  As it
happens, I couldn't remember whether or not he
was below average height for his time; thanks for
providing the information.

Mark

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:45:27 +0000

>Also, just curious, does Smart own a cat?

No, he doesn't. At least there is no mention of one in the text. Why?

-Roy

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:47:37 +0000

>go off for a drink and neither of them ever came back to the ship.

So what is the joke? We know that Wolfe has a warped sense of humor, and
that Jonas is telling the joke. It only dawned on me today that the woman's
last line is also the punch line. We've heard this joke before, in PEACE.
The one Weer told Lois: "I knew we were mechanical engineers, but I didn't
think we'd wind up like this."

She's a robot, too.

-Roy

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From: Alice K. Turner <aturner6 at nyc.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:20:54 +0000

> No, he doesn't. At least there is no mention of one in the text. Why?

Oh, nothing really:

For I will consider my cat Jeoffry
For he is the servant of the Living God duly and daily serving him...

Christopher Smart

-alga

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