{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3486", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3486, "subject": "Napoleon", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-10-15T20:09:27+00:00", "last": "2002-10-16T16:47:50+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-10-15T20:09:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You know, the whole business about \"why Napoleon kept his hand in his vest,\"\naccording to _any_ biography, is a huge red herring ... he did not (as far\nas I can tell) habitually go about with his hand in his vest. There's this\none portrait where he's posed that way; it happens to be the most famous of\nall his portraits. But if you tour, say, the Louvre, you'll see a number of\nother contemporary paintings, such as David's painting of Napoleon Crowning\nthe Empress Josephine, in which his hands are in plain view. \n\nSo ... what does this say about Den?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-10-16T05:23:40+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nYou know, the whole business about \"why Napoleon kept his hand in his vest,\"\naccording to _any_ biography, is a huge red herring ... he did not (as far\nas I can tell) habitually go about with his hand in his vest." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So ... what does this say about Den?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That he was the sort of youth who was a pedantic know-it-all and people\nwould get offended because they thought he was smarting off?\n\n\"Why did Napoleon keep his hand in his vest?\"\n\n\"Gee, I don't know.\"\n\n\"Well, actually he didn't...\"\n\n(eyes roll)\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-10-16T16:47:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l wrote:\nYou know, the whole business about \"why Napoleon kept his hand in his\nvest,\"\naccording to _any_ biography, is a huge red herring ... he did not (as far\nas I can tell) habitually go about with his hand in his vest. There's this\none portrait where he's posed that way; it happens to be the most famous of\nall his portraits. But if you tour, say, the Louvre, you'll see a number of\nother contemporary paintings, such as David's painting of Napoleon Crowning\nthe Empress Josephine, in which his hands are in plain view." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That \"most famous of all his portraits\" is presumably the one he posed for\nin 1810, also painted by Jacques Louis David, court painter to the Emperor\nof the French. It shows him with his right hand in his white waistcoat at\nabout the level of his stomach. The mickey mouse set of encyclopedias I have\nto hand (_World Book_, 1977) shows that painting, and another by Jean\nMeissonier, of Napoleon on a white horse at the head of his army as it\nretreated from Moscow. In this second painting he also has his right hand\nsituated the same way, only this time inside his greatcoat. It's been a long\ntime now, but I'm pretty sure I had heard of Napoleon's penchant for posing\nthat way, or at least of being portrayed that way, before I read PEACE, so\nthe notion had to have come from somewhere, even if it wasn't true. What was\nthe popular explanation? Weer's \"innocent remark\" to visitors' queries about\nthe hand \"invariably offended\". Sex, religion, and politics are the subjects\nmost likely to offend a wide variety of people." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So ... what does this say about Den?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That he is an unreliable narrator? Or that Wolfe suffered from the same\npopular misconception as a lot of other people.\n\nCuriously, that same encyclopedia says: \"Napoleon had an unimpressive\nappearance, but he carried himself well. He stood slightly below average\nheight.\" Those are almost the same words Weer used to describe Smart:\n\"Beyond that there was nothing remarkable in his appearance: he was of just\nunder average height, . . .\". (114)\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }