{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3504", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3504, "subject": "PEACE: Santa's magic", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-10-23T07:54:12+00:00", "last": "2002-10-23T13:56:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-10-23T07:54:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PEACE: Santa's magic", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In one recent post mantis (aka, \"I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay\") wrote:\nI confess I had never before seen that the Christmas book \"from Santa\" was\nthe green book, the one and only book that serves Weer in the same oracular\nfashion that the brown book serves Severian in TBOTNS. Previously I had\nthought that \"The Princess and Her Three Suitors\" and \"The Tale of ben\nYahya and the Marid\" were inventions by Weer to explain his life after the\nfact -- they are not. They are stories from the green book, which is the\nfirst book that Weer ever possessed, the first book he ever read on his\nown. The book is truly magical and the stories tell about the world around\nhim: specifically about his aunt Olivia's courtship in the egg hunt and his\nown adventure in the gold hunt." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And in another post mantis wrote (of Santa):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In the present example [heh], I'm thinking of him as being a ghost, albeit\nof a higher order than most, and entirely benign. That is, his name was\nvoiced and so he was summoned (this really is a critical key of PEACE), he\ndid his magic without being heard or detected, he vanished." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[dismissing my argument for who switched the gifts]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Which is great for determining the switch of the water for the pearls! But\nit cannot explain the switch of the book (which presumably was a mundane\nbook bought by one of the adults). The obvious switch of water for pearls\nis the cover for the more important switch; in a similar way the obsessive\nimportance of the Christmas knife that Weer searches for is a cover for the\nmagical origin and magical nature of the book." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Now, we both know that the \"heavy, square package with its ribbons and\ntrimmings somewhat crushed and flattened\" (24) that grandpa showed Den just\nafter midnight contained a book. Den and his mother arrived on Christmas\nEve, having traveled by train. Della's Christmas shopping had been done in\nadvance; the package trimmings got flattened from being packed for the trip.\nDella bought the book, as evidenced by the fact that she knew that \"Santa\"\nmight bring Den one (21).\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that the book Della bought for Den is not the\n\"weighty book, bound in green buckram\" that Den unwrapped on Christmas\nmorning? That Santa Claus came down the chimney and switched books? **That\nDella didn't notice the switch?**\n\n[of the toilet water and pearls]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(If grampa did do the switch, then it was clearly not premeditated, since\nhe showed young Weer the situation at that time. Risky, if not stupid, of\ngrampa to make the switch after showing Weer, since as a little kid he is\nvery likely to blurt out what he knows, causing all sorts of trouble. From\nthis standpoint it makes more sense for Della to make the switch, she not\nknowing that Weer and grampa had met in secret at around midnight.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Fair enough; but regardless of who made the switch, the switch was made and\nDen knew about it, and apparently _didn't_ blab. There is no question about\nwho bought the pearls; Mr. Elliot bought them. If he made the switch, only\nhe and Den knew about it. If Della made the switch, then she, her father,\nand Den knew about it. And if Santa made the switch, then he had to have\nmade a second visit to the Elliot home after Den and grandpa went to bed.\nSanta just doesn't have time for that kind of thing! And the nerve of that\nold elf, to go playing tricks like that on decent people, switching gifts\nthat he didn't even bring! And Den and grandpa would still have known about\nthe switch.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-10-23T13:56:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) PEACE: Santa's magic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roy wrote:\nNow, we both know that the \"heavy, square package with its ribbons and\ntrimmings somewhat crushed and flattened\" (24) that grandpa showed Den just\nafter midnight contained a book. Den and his mother arrived on Christmas\nEve, having traveled by train. Della's Christmas shopping had been done in\nadvance; the package trimmings got flattened from being packed for the trip.\nDella bought the book, as evidenced by the fact that she knew that \"Santa\"\nmight bring Den one (21).\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that the book Della bought for Den is not the\n\"weighty book, bound in green buckram\" that Den unwrapped on Christmas\nmorning? That Santa Claus came down the chimney and switched books? **That\nDella didn't notice the switch?**" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yep, that's the book switch as I see it. The book exterior looks exactly\nlike the book that Della bought, and it is in the same squished box that\nshe wrapped it in. Since I don't think that Della actually read the entire\nbook before purchasing it, that is about as far as her detective powers\ncould take her.\n\nThe book Della bought might even have been Lang's THE GREEN FAIRY BOOK,\nsince Weer mentions this title early on, and since the stories (and the\nillos!) seem like they come from a Lang anthology, and, not the least, the\ntitle has that \"green\" in it. But I have read Lang's THE GREEN FAIRY BOOK\n(and I've overturned a few children's libraries unsuccessfully looking for\nthose two stories -- sorry kids, I'm on a quest) and I'm certain that\nWeer's book is not Lang's.\n\n(I suspect the green book has the Paul Bunyon story in it, too. Weer only\nmentions it in passing in the episode of hiking to the cave.)\n\nWeer, beginning writer, is basically a reporter like his aunt Bella, he is\nnot a forger like Lou Gold. He did not invent those green book stories, he\nread them." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And if Santa made the switch, then he had to have\nmade a second visit to the Elliot home after Den and grandpa went to bed.\nSanta just doesn't have time for that kind of thing! And the nerve of that\nold elf, to go playing tricks like that on decent people, switching gifts\nthat he didn't even bring!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, technically I think that Santa had not been there yet when grampa\nsaid he had, so Santa only made one trip. As for the time it takes, well,\nif a body isn't entirely physical, if one does not have to park the sleigh,\ngrab the bag, crawl down the narrow soot-chute, et cetera, then it goes a\nlot quicker!\n\n(LOL, the \"okay lumberjack\" ref. I was trying to work an imaginary \"Lang's\nTHE PLAID FAIRY BOOK\" into the text above, but these . . . suspenders I'm\nwearing are so distracting.)\n\n=mantis=" } ] } ] }