{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3531", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3531, "subject": "PEACE: Sherry vs. Doris", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-10-31T00:51:05+00:00", "last": "2002-10-31T01:53:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-10-31T00:51:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) PEACE: Sherry vs. Doris", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis (no capital; likewise alga and hartshorn) wrote:\nThe more realistic level of the joke is that the sister has prostituted\nherself (a native has wined, dined, bedded, and paid her) and the\nimmigrants are too naive to understand such prostitution, for any variety\nof reasons (for example, they always got the same in the old country and\nwere still treated like dirt).\n\nThis is a curious joke to come from a girl who has just prostituted herself\nfor purposes of blackmail!\n\nBut it also matches well with what we know about Doris: as a pretty yet\nmundane girl in the carny world, her roles are limited to using her body\nfor titilation or outright prostitution, and she is treated like dirt. But\nif she were a freak, she would be an aristocrat among the carnies.\n\nI make this parallel not to link Sherry and Doris as being the same person,\nor even related, but being both young women feeling pressure to prostitute\nthemselves." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Other than age, I don't see that the two girls have much in common. Doris is\nostensibly an orphan; Sherry is not. Doris has \"victim\" written all over\nher, whereas Sherry is anything but. Judging by Charlie's account, Doris is\nnaive, not only sexually (Charlie said that someone would have to tell her\nhow she could show she was grateful for Tom Lavine's failed gallantry), but\nshe didn't know better than to wear her new clothes \"with the labels still\non\". Sherry is, by her own mother's account, a very \"forward\" girl (as\ndemonstrated by her blowing Weer a kiss while on the stairs of her home, to\nsay nothing of her seduction of Weer), fully prepared to use her \"magic\nring\" to make all her wishes come true. In Doris's place, Sherry would have\nsoon been queen of the midway, had she wanted to be, or, more likely, been\non the first bus out of town, and with money in her pocket, to boot.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-10-31T01:53:57+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) PEACE: Sherry vs. Doris", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I wrote about Sherry's joke. Roy quoted and wrote:\nI make this parallel not to link Sherry and Doris as being the same person,\nor even related, but being both young women feeling pressure to prostitute\nthemselves." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Other than age, I don't see that the two girls have much in common. Doris is\nostensibly an orphan; Sherry is not. Doris has \"victim\" written all over\nher, whereas Sherry is anything but. Judging by Charlie's account, Doris is\nnaive, not only sexually (Charlie said that someone would have to tell her\nhow she could show she was grateful for Tom Lavine's failed gallantry), but\nshe didn't know better than to wear her new clothes \"with the labels still\non\". Sherry is, by her own mother's account, a very \"forward\" girl (as\ndemonstrated by her blowing Weer a kiss while on the stairs of her home, to\nsay nothing of her seduction of Weer), fully prepared to use her \"magic\nring\" to make all her wishes come true. In Doris's place, Sherry would have\nsoon been queen of the midway, had she wanted to be, or, more likely, been\non the first bus out of town, and with money in her pocket, to boot." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And here I thought we might have different interpretations of the joke (in\nlight of the Jonas joke)!\n\nBut wait -- you think they are the same age? Hmmm. I thought we had\nagreed that Doris is younger than 16.\n\nAs for the differences in character between Doris and Sherry, I agree.\nTheir situations at those two moments might be similar, but their\ncharacters are different. One is an orphan; one often thinks of leaving\nhome before she finishes high school. All of which is another strike\nagainst Doris = Sherry.\n\nDoris is presented as a \"good\" girl who comes to a bad end; as opposed to\n\"bad\" girl Olivia who comes to a bad end, and \"bad\" girl Sherry who comes\nto not as bad an ending (as far as we can tell she lives into her late 30s,\ndoes not commit suicide, is not murdered). Maybe this is what is\ndepressing to Weer, the way that she is pecked at by the others, and she\ndoesn't have the strength and whatall to escape.\n\nIf Weer somehow did arrange for that fairy godmother routine, I'm sure he\nwould be depressed at how that worked out.\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\n29 copies of \"Snake's-hands\" until OP!\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] } ] }