# King Jesus/Autarch Severian/Calde Silk - Part Two *The Urth list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 10 Nov 2002* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Don Doggett *10 Nov 2002, 22:58* Ok, so here are some of my crazy theories vis a vis my "enlightenment" after reading King Jesus. A few of them bear directly on the current conversation regarding Typhon/Pas and his intentions with the Whorl. I'm still working most of them out in my head so feel free to help me solidify them or debunk them. It's the conversation that's most important. Here we go. Jesus is the grandson of Herod. If we accept that Severian is an echo of Jesus and Silk is an echo of Severian then they must both be of the blood of "Herod". So who is "Herod". Silk is the easiest to figure out and I've always felt this but now I am convinced. If Silk is not the son of Typhon, he is either the grandson, or a clone. I like the clone idea because then Silk is the sun giving birth to himself as well as a descendant of Herod. It also gives me great pleasure to imagine Silk's head on Typhon when reading Sword or UotNS. Plus one of Typhon's heads is blond. Which one is never specified but Severian says that his stare "was the poisoned regard of the yellowbeard."(Urth p.274) I realize he is speaking metaphorically of a viper, but why use yellowbeard? And I doubt Pas is a faithful visual representation of the real Typhon. This also fills in several plot questions, such as how Pas/Typhon intended to continue his rule on Blue and why Silk was invited to merge with Pas. Silk is Typhon. It is the face that is most important. Maybe. Typhon is not Severian's father. I believe that Ymar is. More correctly, Ymar is the original Severian and Severian is his khaibit. A major clue is the psuedo koan involving Ymar beneath the plane tree. He follows a dog, laughing. Laughing indeed. This is a parallel of Severian following Triskele and finding the Atrium of time- a time travel device. Severian is being disingenuous when he says he is not the first Severian. Only Ymar and the previous Autarch went to Yesod and both failed (and were presumably unmanned). I believe the mausoleum where Severian played is Ymar's. As a khaibit he is in a sense his own father and a son of a king. To carry this extravaganza further, I believe that Typhon may be Ymar's father, mainly because of the Tale of the Boy Called Frog. Spring Wind could be another name for Typhon and the Black Killer is the Torturer's Guild who protects Frog. Both Ymar and Severian are sheltered in the Guild. Strange coincidence from an author who is not known to be coincidental. Plus, this makes Silk and Severian not only of Herod's bloodline but it also makes them cousins (I think). This is really stretching but l have to indulge myself. Assuming that Blue is Ushas (which I am nearly certain of, but that's another can of worms) Silk, by travelling through time, can be John to Severian's Jesus while Severian (who makes many appearances throughout SS imho) can be John to Silk's Jesus on Blue/Ushas. I know that's a stretch but the Moebius strip logic of it entertains me immensely. I also think that the Mandragora is also Severian (a failed clone) and that Valeria is his sister (if he even has one). That's all I have to offer at the moment. I haven't gotten to a second reading of LS or SS though I thumb through them often enough. One parallel that I forgot to mention between Graves' Jesus and Severian and Silk is that none of them are truly divine. So that's it. I am afraid that my arguments have been as convoluted as Robert Graves' own and not one thousandth as scholarly, but I hope they are worth reading. "Jesus added boldly: 'Let any man dispute this who dare!'" D.D. --- ### Roy C. Lackey *12 Nov 2002, 09:21 · follows Don Doggett* Don Doggett: First of all, I would like to welcome you to the list, if I may so presume. Whether I agree with your theories or not, I like your style and ability to express yourself cogently. In fact, I confess to having been pleasantly surprised by the writing abilities of several of the newer, younger (at least I assume they are young) posters who have been cropping up here in recent months. I haven't read KING JESUS, so I can't knowledgeably comment on your theory of parallels with the SUN books. Just a few points: Don Doggett wrote: [snip] > This also fills in several plot questions, such as how > Pas/Typhon intended to continue his rule on Blue and why Silk was invited > to > merge with Pas. Silk is Typhon. It is the face that is most important. > Maybe. Silk is so unlike Typhon that it's hard to imagine him as a clone. If he was, nurture rode roughshod over nature to an alarming degree, rendering a final product so at variance with the original that it would have been completely unacceptable to a megalomaniac like Typhon. Also, had Typhon been in possession of a cloned, frozen embryo he believed to be perfectly viable, to which he planned, somehow, to transfer his personality at the conclusion of the _Whorl's_ journey, do you think he would have stored it anywhere that a member of the cargo could possibly have gotten their hands on it? I think not. Further, had Typhon such a cloned embryo, it could have been brought to maturity in the same time that was needed to build the _Whorl_. If the technique of "possession" via the eyes were known *before* the _Whorl_ was launched, then Typhon had to hand a better means of extending his biological life than grafting his own head to another body. Plant the embryo; wait for it to grow while the ship was being built. When Typhon's head was cut off he was, in effect, dead. If he had been scanned immediately prior to decapitation, the scanned image could then be transferred to the clone and Typhon has his new body, same face and all. More certain than waking up after decollation. [snip] > This is really stretching but l have to indulge myself. > Assuming that Blue is Ushas (which I am nearly certain of, but that's > another can of worms) Silk, by travelling through time, can be John to If you've read the archives, then you know I have argued that Blue isn't Ushas, so I won't repeat my arguments. I believe, and consensus here seems to be, that what Silkhorn does when he travels by spirit does *not* involve time travel. As Hammerstone explained to Silk, the _Whorl_ seems to have been designed to last for a period of only about 250 years. That's why so many things in the ship are breaking down in Silk's day. So, Typhon intended a voyage with a destination something less that 250 light years from Urth. Traveling at something below light speed, subjective time on the ship was about 1/3 of a millenium, while on Urth a full millenium had passed from Typhon's day to Sev's. When Silkhorn traveled to Urth, he was traversing space, not time traveling. The passage of time on Blue was the same as on Urth. When Horn first landed on Blue, it was a few years before Sev was born. It's why, when Silkhorn and the others went to Urth and found themselves on the _Samru_, then went back to Blue, Silkhorn was allowing for the distance the _Samru_ would have traveled downstream in their absence. (WHORL, 350) This is also another argument against Blue being Ushas. Urth and Blue are quite a few light years apart, and Ushas is more than fifty years in Urth's future, therefore more than fifty years in Silkhorn's future. > Severian's Jesus while Severian (who makes many appearances throughout SS > imho) can be John to Silk's Jesus on Blue/Ushas. I know that's a stretch > but the Moebius strip logic of it entertains me immensely. I also think > that the Mandragora is also Severian (a failed clone) and that Valeria is > his sister (if he even has one). Other than the obvious appearances we all know about, where does Sev show up in SS? -Roy ---