# interesting Green Man article *The Urth list — 5 messages, 4 voices, 13 Nov 2002* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### tom *13 Nov 2002, 16:28* The Green Man as pagan god. The bit about Pope Julius II is interesting: http://www.thisishull.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeIda026&command=displayContent&sourceNodea025&contentPK015423 --- ### Andy Robertson *13 Nov 2002, 16:47 · follows tom* Interesting. I had never made this connection, I confess. The Green man (or Green Knight) is a god figure that later became an elf/fay/sidhe in Northern legend. I am not at all sure that I see any linkage with the character in TBOTNS: for example, he is never spoken of as chained or imprisoned. hartshorn ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tom" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:28 PM > Subject: (urth) interesting Green Man article > > The Green Man as pagan god. The bit about Pope Julius II > is interesting: http://www.thisishull.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeIda026&command=displayCont ent&sourceNodea025&contentPK015423 > -- --- ### Josh Geller *13 Nov 2002, 17:13 · follows Andy Robertson* > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, tom wrote: > The Green Man as pagan god. The bit about Pope Julius II > is interesting: > http://www.thisishull.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeIda026&command=displayContent&sourceNodea025&contentPK015423 There's a green guy who is important in Islam also. And there's the one that's associated with peyote. Maybe they're not all the same green guy. It's interesting to contemplate what the World would have to be like for them all to be the same one. . --- ### James Wynn *13 Nov 2002, 19:21 · follows Josh Geller* Josh Geller notes: There's a green guy who is important in Islam also. And there's the one that's associated with peyote. Maybe they're not all the same green guy. It's interesting to contemplate what the World would have to be like for them all to be the same one Crush responds: Actually the green fellow in Islam ("El Hidr" or "al-Khidr") is probably the primary derivation of the NS's Green Man. Robert Graves in "The White Goddess" identifies him as a "former Sun-hero". Apparently he drank from a pool of youth in Hyperborea and gained immortality. He encounters wandering holy men to impart divine knowledge. He is also a patron of sea travelers so perhaps, like Apollo (another Sun divinity) and all the Moon divinities (according to Graves), one his early aspects was a sea-god. But alloying of conceptual cognates is very Wolfean. -- Crush --- ### Josh Geller *13 Nov 2002, 19:45 · follows James Wynn* > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, James Wynn wrote: > Josh Geller notes: >> There's a green guy who is important in Islam also. >> And there's the one that's associated with peyote. >> Maybe they're not all the same green guy. It's interesting to >> contemplate what the World would have to be like for them all to be the >> same one > Actually the green fellow in Islam ("El Hidr" or "al-Khidr") is probably the > primary derivation of the NS's Green Man. Robert Graves in "The White > Goddess" identifies him as a "former Sun-hero". Apparently he drank from a > pool of youth in Hyperborea and gained immortality. He encounters wandering > holy men to impart divine knowledge. He is also a patron of sea travelers so > perhaps, like Apollo (another Sun divinity) and all the Moon divinities > (according to Graves), one his early aspects was a sea-god. > But alloying of conceptual cognates is very Wolfean. It's interesting that he shows up sometimes when people eat peyote. . ---