whorl in orbit
The Urth list — 3 messages, 3 voices, 19 Nov 2002
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3591

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Don Doggett — 19 Nov 2002, 07:24

Against the "Whorl has been in orbit for thirty years" possibly in the text
and possibly said by Wolfe in an interview I lay down my "longfather,
culture hero of Ushas who left for the stars" entry in Lexicon Urthus
p.184 - 185.  And I would argue most vehemently that nothing is
straightforward enough in these texts to draw any definitive conclusions.
Heck, for all I know, this is some elaborate joke by Wolfe, and the real
narrator of the whole 12 book series is L. Ron Hubbard.

Don

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Charles Reed — 19 Nov 2002, 15:37
  follows, by subject match Don Doggett

> Don Doggett wrote:
> Against the "Whorl has been in orbit for thirty years" possibly in the text
> and possibly said by Wolfe in an interview I lay down my "longfather,
> culture hero of Ushas who left for the stars" entry in Lexicon Urthus
> p.184 - 185.  

In order for the inhumi to have come aboard before the Silk is 
enlightened -- and I don't think you can question that Quetzal was on 
board before Silk was enlightened -- then the Whorl has to have been in 
orbit around the Short Sun at necessarily sub-light speeds.  I simply 
don't think there's any way around that conclusion.

> And I would argue most vehemently that nothing is
> straightforward enough in these texts to draw any definitive conclusions.
> Heck, for all I know, this is some elaborate joke by Wolfe, and the real
> narrator of the whole 12 book series is L. Ron Hubbard.

Don, if this is true, then what's the point?  If you can dismiss any 
piece of evidence that doesn't fit in with your theory by just saying, 
"Well, obviously the narrator is wrong." then you can twist the 
narrative into any shape you like.  I don't see the joy in that, because 
then you're not working at interpreting the text, you're simply imposing 
your will on it.   I certainly don't believe that the narrator is 
infallible, but I do believe that you have to take what he  says at face 
value until something forces you to do otherwise.  But that's just me.

Charles

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Dan'l Danehy-Oakes — 19 Nov 2002, 17:22
  follows, by subject match Charles Reed

> Against the "Whorl has been in orbit for thirty years" 
> possibly in the text and possibly said by Wolfe in an 
> interview I lay down my "longfather, culture hero of Ushas 
> who left for the stars" entry in Lexicon Urthus p.184 - 185.  

Okay, I don't have a copy of the Lex, so I don't know what it
says there ... but ... "longfather" is simply an antique word
for a male ancestor distant enough that you can't (or don't 
want to bother) counting out the "greats" -- typically one who
plays a patronymic or patriarchal role in the family history;
Abraham would be "longfather" to the Jews. (Note that this does
not exclude the concept of "culture hero," but does not
require it.) The only modern use of the word I know outside of
Wolfe is -- who's surprised? -- Tolkien, who refers somewhere
to the "longfathers of the Dwarves."

> Heck, for all I know, this is some elaborate 
> joke by Wolfe, and the real narrator of the whole 12 book 
> series is L. Ron Hubbard.

Oh, great, now you've gone and spoilt it all ... trying to 
lay engrams on us, eh?

--Dan'l

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