{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3611", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3611, "subject": "Marbles hands and Oz magic", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-11-26T15:49:08+00:00", "last": "2002-11-26T21:42:40+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-11-26T15:49:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Marbles hands and Oz magic", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy wrote:\nAh. [the quote] from when Marble was killing Musk, LS3: 3. \"Her hands, the\nbony\nblue-veined hands of an elderly bio, glowed crimson in the flames.\"\n\nAs for the rest . . . I'll save it for another day. But do you really think\nthat Hammerstone fell in 'love' with a chem \"girl\" he described as \"pretty\nas a picture\", who had hands that looked like the bony blue-veined hands of\nan elderly bio?\n\n\nCrush responds:\nWhenever is fine. :)\n\nIn answer to your question, no, I don't believe Moly had hands like that. I\ndon't believe any chem had hands like that. That's what is troubling,\nbecause as you surely remember, Marble only inherited ONE hand (by my\nreading) from Rose. Remember Marble's conversation with Blood at the end of\nLS3? Talking about the times Rose would come and visit him as a child, he\nnotes that (quoting from memory) \"One time you came with a hand like that\none.\" Then Marble notes \"it *was* this one.\"\n\nSo now we're left with the question of how *both* Marble's hands looked that\nway during the sacrifice of Musk. As you know, I've been inclined to believe\nthat there were limits to what the gods could do with their possessed hosts.\nThe passage you've quoted *seems* to suggest that there is very little they\ncan't do. If Echidna could so dramatically transform Marble's metal flesh to\nexhibit a more Echidna-like appearance, what can't they do?\n\nAt this time (and I don't have the books with me) this sounds Wolfean \"Oz\nMagic\" as it seems to be called around here. I'd like to hear ANY other\nopinion to explain Marble's hands.\n\n--- Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-11-26T19:46:51+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Marbles hands and Oz magic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Crush responds:\nWhenever is fine. :)\n\nIn answer to your question, no, I don't believe Moly had hands like that. I\ndon't believe any chem had hands like that. That's what is troubling,\nbecause as you surely remember, Marble only inherited ONE hand (by my\nreading) from Rose. Remember Marble's conversation with Blood at the end of\nLS3? Talking about the times Rose would come and visit him as a child, he\nnotes that (quoting from memory) \"One time you came with a hand like that\none.\" Then Marble notes \"it *was* this one.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marble did get both her hands from Rose. Rose didn't receive all her\nprosthetics at the same time, that's all; she would have scared the hell out\nof that boy if she had. Much of her face was prosthetic, both arms and both\nlegs, her \"ears\", one eye, and a host of internal organs. Before Marble got\nthe new hands, her old ones had lost most of their synthetic bio veneer; the\nveneer had worn through from constant work over the course of\nthree-hundred-plus years.\n\nNow that you've acknowledged that you \"don't believe any chem had hands like\nthat\", that plays hell with your theory that they originally came from a\ndismantled chem. Either Rose had them made to look that way, or that was the\nbest she could get when she needed them. Echidna had nothing to do with the\nhands. They were not an illusion produced during possession. Marble \"snapped\nher new fingers\" when she was deciding how to get the attic door down,\nfollowed by more references to her new fingers (LS3: 5). She couldn't snap\nher old ones because they were worn down to the bare metal.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-11-26T21:42:40+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Marbles hands and Oz magic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy said:\nNow that you've acknowledged that you \"don't believe any chem had hands like\nthat\", that plays hell with your theory that they originally came from a\ndismantled chem. Either Rose had them made to look that way, or that was the\nbest she could get when she needed them. Echidna had nothing to do with the\nhands. They were not an illusion produced during possession. Marble \"snapped\nher new fingers\" when she was deciding how to get the attic door down,\nfollowed by more references to her new fingers (LS3: 5). She couldn't snap\nher old ones because they were worn down to the bare metal.\n\nCrush responds:\nRaise one hand and one hand only. Now tell me how you snap your \"FINGER\"\n(singular). \n\nThere is no doubt that the parts came from a dismantled chem. Silk's\nconversation with Horn in LS2:1 proves beyond argument that Rose's\nprosthetics were not made originally for bios. Silk says quite clearly that\n(1)such technology was left behind on Urth and (2)while Xiphias' leg was\nsuch an artifact, Rose's definitely were not. The onus is on you to explain\nwhere they came from if not from a chem?\n\nMarble (impersonating Moly) in LS3:10 says she had been at the Sun St.\ncenoby since before humans came to Viron. The onus is on you to explain what\nhappened to Moly.\n\nMaybe you can show why anyone would create \"bony blue-veined\" prosthetic\nhands for ***anyone***, but I'm afraid I find the concept absurd.\n\nI've explained why the hands looked like that during Musk's sacrifice. I\ndon't like the lack of rational explanation FOR the explanation -- I'm not\nsure \"illusion\" is the right word -- but I can't come up with any other\nexplanation. If you want to believe Marble inherited TWO hands and that the\nChapter had **altered** the hands in order to promote humility in Rose, have\nat it. I like that explanation a great deal less. But the text places us\nbeyond believing that they were prosthetics originally created for a bio.\n\n--- Crush" } ] } ] }