Subject: (urth) Marbles hands and Oz magic

From: James Wynn <crushtv at hotpop.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:49:08 +0000

Roy wrote:
Ah. [the quote] from when Marble was killing Musk, LS3: 3. "Her hands, the
bony
blue-veined hands of an elderly bio, glowed crimson in the flames."

As for the rest . . . I'll save it for another day. But do you really think
that Hammerstone fell in 'love' with a chem "girl" he described as "pretty
as a picture", who had hands that looked like the bony blue-veined hands of
an elderly bio?

Crush responds:
Whenever is fine. :)

In answer to your question, no, I don't believe Moly had hands like that. I
don't believe any chem had hands like that. That's what is troubling,
because as you surely remember, Marble only inherited ONE hand (by my
reading) from Rose. Remember Marble's conversation with Blood at the end of
LS3? Talking about the times Rose would come and visit him as a child, he
notes that (quoting from memory) "One time you came with a hand like that
one." Then Marble notes "it *was* this one."

So now we're left with the question of how *both* Marble's hands looked that
way during the sacrifice of Musk. As you know, I've been inclined to believe
that there were limits to what the gods could do with their possessed hosts.
The passage you've quoted *seems* to suggest that there is very little they
can't do. If Echidna could so dramatically transform Marble's metal flesh to
exhibit a more Echidna-like appearance, what can't they do?

At this time (and I don't have the books with me) this sounds Wolfean "Oz
Magic" as it seems to be called around here. I'd like to hear ANY other
opinion to explain Marble's hands.

--- Crush

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:46:51 +0000

>one." Then Marble notes "it *was* this one."

Marble did get both her hands from Rose. Rose didn't receive all her
prosthetics at the same time, that's all; she would have scared the hell out
of that boy if she had. Much of her face was prosthetic, both arms and both
legs, her "ears", one eye, and a host of internal organs. Before Marble got
the new hands, her old ones had lost most of their synthetic bio veneer; the
veneer had worn through from constant work over the course of
three-hundred-plus years.

Now that you've acknowledged that you "don't believe any chem had hands like
that", that plays hell with your theory that they originally came from a
dismantled chem. Either Rose had them made to look that way, or that was the
best she could get when she needed them. Echidna had nothing to do with the
hands. They were not an illusion produced during possession. Marble "snapped
her new fingers" when she was deciding how to get the attic door down,
followed by more references to her new fingers (LS3: 5). She couldn't snap
her old ones because they were worn down to the bare metal.

-Roy

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From: James Wynn <crushtv at hotpop.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:42:40 +0000

Roy said:

Crush responds:
Raise one hand and one hand only. Now tell me how you snap your "FINGER"
(singular). <g>

There is no doubt that the parts came from a dismantled chem. Silk's
conversation with Horn in LS2:1 proves beyond argument that Rose's
prosthetics were not made originally for bios. Silk says quite clearly that
(1)such technology was left behind on Urth and (2)while Xiphias' leg was
such an artifact, Rose's definitely were not. The onus is on you to explain
where they came from if not from a chem?

Marble (impersonating Moly) in LS3:10 says she had been at the Sun St.
cenoby since before humans came to Viron. The onus is on you to explain what
happened to Moly.

Maybe you can show why anyone would create "bony blue-veined" prosthetic
hands for ***anyone***, but I'm afraid I find the concept absurd.

I've explained why the hands looked like that during Musk's sacrifice. I
don't like the lack of rational explanation FOR the explanation -- I'm not
sure "illusion" is the right word -- but I can't come up with any other
explanation. If you want to believe Marble inherited TWO hands and that the
Chapter had **altered** the hands in order to promote humility in Rose, have
at it. I like that explanation a great deal less. But the text places us
beyond believing that they were prosthetics originally created for a bio.

--- Crush

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