{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3653", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3653, "subject": "Wrangling Over Minutiae", "messages": 5, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-12-04T17:56:41+00:00", "last": "2003-01-05T19:56:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2002-12-04T17:56:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Michael Andre-Driussi wrote:\nProfessor Jerry wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "When I thought about it, I thought that my reasons for\nnot mentioning my Ph. D. were better than my reasons for revealing it,\nso I probably should have stayed \"in the closet\"." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I strongly disagree: not mentioning it upfront was what made it a\nback-alley ambush of a housewife by an academician. In the animal kingdom\nthis is predatory camouflage." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is uncharitable.\n\nSimple embarrassment might have prevented Jerry from talking about his\nPh.D.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-12-04T18:03:27+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Mantis then Josh wrote:\nI strongly disagree: not mentioning it upfront was what made it a \nback-alley ambush of a housewife by an academician. In the animal \nkingdom this is predatory camouflage." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This is uncharitable.\n\nSimple embarrassment might have prevented Jerry from talking \nabout his Ph.D." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And simple embarassment might also have caused Mantis to exaggerate\nthe degree of his \"ambushment.\"\n\nActually, I'm more interested in his self-description as a \n\"housewife\" ... 8*)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2003-01-05T11:13:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nMarc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Of course Typhon recognizes Severian. He says, \"If you kneel before\nme, the New Sun will kneel before me when he comes.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You put that in quotes. As if it came from the text. It doesn't. Severian's\nentire meeting with Typhon runs from page 184 to page 197 of SWORD,\nTimescape hardback, 170-182 paper. He said no such thing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No. As you said, the conversation went like this:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "... Typhon never mentioned the New Sun. The closest you can come is that\nSev mentioned him once: \"Autarch, what of the New Sun, if at last he comes?\nWill you be his enemy too, as you were the enemy of the Conciliator?\" Sev\nspeaks as if the New Sun and the Conciliator were _not_ the same person.\nTyphon answered: \"Swear to me, and believe me, when he comes I shall be his\nmaster, and he my most abject slave.\" Then Sev killed him. There was no\nmention of the New Sun during their brief meeting in URTH, either." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Typhon's pretty sharp. He figured it all out, except which head to defend,\nand who can really blame him for that?\n\nMy reading of this is almost the exact opposite if your reading of it.\n\nTyphon does not know the term 'New Sun'. Why should he? The term has come\ninto use in the time he has been dead. But as soon as Severian uses it he\nknows both that Severian is the New Sun and that Severian does not know\nthat he is the New Sun.\n\nBut he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the\nguy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2003-01-05T18:30:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Josh Geller wrote:\nBut he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the\nguy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Screwed it up how? Typhon was already besieged on his mountain when Sev\narrived in his timeline. Sev was there for less than a week. The sun had\nalready been wounded, all the space-worthy ships were gone, the peasants\nwere in revolt, and Piaton was dragging his heals about giving up his body,\nall before Sev came on the scene. Typhon died not too long after Sev\ndisappeared. Typhon's problems were all of his own doing; Sev had nothing to\ndo with any of it.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2003-01-05T19:56:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nJosh Geller wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the\nguy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Screwed it up how? Typhon was already besieged on his mountain when Sev\narrived in his timeline. Sev was there for less than a week. The sun had\nalready been wounded, all the space-worthy ships were gone, the peasants\nwere in revolt, and Piaton was dragging his heals about giving up his body,\nall before Sev came on the scene. Typhon died not too long after Sev\ndisappeared. Typhon's problems were all of his own doing; Sev had nothing to\ndo with any of it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I see.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] } ] }