Subject: (urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae

From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:56:41 +0000

On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Michael Andre-Driussi wrote:
> Professor Jerry wrote:

>> When I thought about it, I thought that my reasons for
>> not mentioning my Ph. D. were better than my reasons for revealing it,
>> so I probably should have stayed "in the closet".

> I strongly disagree: not mentioning it upfront was what made it a
> back-alley ambush of a housewife by an academician.  In the animal kingdom
> this is predatory camouflage.

This is uncharitable.

Simple embarrassment might have prevented Jerry from talking about his
Ph.D.

.

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:03:27 +0000

Mantis then Josh wrote:

> > back-alley ambush of a housewife by an academician.  In the animal 
> > kingdom this is predatory camouflage.
> 
> This is uncharitable.
> 
> Simple embarrassment might have prevented Jerry from talking 
> about his Ph.D.

And simple embarassment might also have caused Mantis to exaggerate
the degree of his "ambushment."

Actually, I'm more interested in his self-description as a 
"housewife" ... 8*)

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From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:13:00 +0000

On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote:
> Marc Aramini wrote:

>> Of course Typhon recognizes Severian.  He says, "If you kneel before
>> me, the New Sun will kneel before me when he comes."

> You put that in quotes. As if it came from the text. It doesn't. Severian's
> entire meeting with Typhon runs from page 184 to page 197 of SWORD,
> Timescape hardback, 170-182 paper. He said no such thing.

No. As you said, the conversation went like this:

> ... Typhon never mentioned the New Sun. The closest you can come is that
> Sev mentioned him once: "Autarch, what of the New Sun, if at last he comes?
> Will you be his enemy too, as you were the enemy of the Conciliator?" Sev
> speaks as if the New Sun and the Conciliator were _not_ the same person.
> Typhon answered: "Swear to me, and believe me, when he comes I shall be his
> master, and he my most abject slave." Then Sev killed him. There was no
> mention of the New Sun during their brief meeting in URTH, either.

Typhon's pretty sharp. He figured it all out, except which head to defend,
and who can really blame him for that?

My reading of this is almost the exact opposite if your reading of it.

Typhon does not know the term 'New Sun'. Why should he? The term has come
into use in the time he has been dead. But as soon as Severian uses it he
knows both that Severian is the New Sun and that Severian does not know
that he is the New Sun.

But he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the
guy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline.

.

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:30:56 +0000

>guy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline.

Screwed it up how? Typhon was already besieged on his mountain when Sev
arrived in his timeline. Sev was there for less than a week. The sun had
already been wounded, all the space-worthy ships were gone, the peasants
were in revolt, and Piaton was dragging his heals about giving up his body,
all before Sev came on the scene. Typhon died not too long after Sev
disappeared. Typhon's problems were all of his own doing; Sev had nothing to
do with any of it.

-Roy

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From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:56:43 +0000

> disappeared. Typhon's problems were all of his own doing; Sev had nothing to

I see.

.

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