{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3674", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3674, "subject": "FLF: plan B, plan A", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-12-13T15:49:48+00:00", "last": "2002-12-14T07:45:08+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-12-13T15:49:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FLF: plan B, plan A", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Roy quoted and wrote:\nMy timeline fragment shows that the 53-year-old deserter did =not= go\nstraight back to 1803, he went back to 1807. Maybe he did this to\nacclimitize himself to 19th century life before going on the 1803\nexpedition.\n\nI suspect that HC interview Whitten is the one who is about to go to 1803,\nafter having lived 7 years of experience in 1807-1818 (with vacations in\n1979-1982)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I could agree with that but for Whitten's ages--real and apparent--at two\ncritical stages. The first is his self-stated age (60-70) at the time of the\nHC interview. But he looks so much like the 82-year-old the four lived with\nfor a few days in 1983 that they all recognize him immediately, but hadn't\nrecognized him shortly before then as the 53-year-old general. The HC Free\nhas undergone at least ten years of hard living somewhere, somewhen. And he\nclaims not to know from his own personal experience that any version of\nhimself has gone to the Lewis & Clark expedition." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't see the contention yet. \"Ten years of hard living\" (in 1807-1819)\n-- check. \"Has not yet gone on Lewis & Clark expedition\" (1804-1806) --\ncheck." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Unless he's lying, for no\nreason I can see, then this 60-something-year-old man will have to start\nusing a gizmo to go back in time in order to merge with younger versions of\nhimself, to make himself both look and feel younger. Which leads to the\nsecond critical stage. Because the first item in Wolfe's timeline states\nthat the Ben Free who joined up with L. & C. *looked* younger than 60,\nwhereas Free-in-the-cockpit looked older than 60. But Wolfe also states that\nhe was in fact age 60 at the time he joined L. & C. That's the problem;\neither Free was wrong about his current age at the time of the HC interview,\nor Wolfe made a mistake somewhere, either in the text or the timeline. (I\nknow of two mistakes in the timeline, but they are minor and don't really\naffect the chronology.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Still no contention visible to me: \"Designated implosion zone for\nrejuvenation treatment prior to rigors of L&C expedition\" (in 1807-1819) --\ncheck." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "To be clear: I think that Whitten, after an unknown period of time (years?)\nwhile he continued to work for the OSS and look for Ben Free, when he\ndecided to desert, used the portable gizmo to travel to January 24, 1983,\nfrom whatever time period he was then in. He had deduced where Free's\n\"ticket\" was, just as the text says, and used it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Okay, so you are back to Plan A, that we were working at before:\n\nWhen Whitten \"disappears\" on January 22 (the \"second time\") he doesn't\nimplode (so HC Whitten is correct that duffle coat has not imploded), he\njust goes into the past (say 1943-1951) via the portable gizmo and manages\nto age seven years (the numbers look good) completing his investigation on\nhow he is Ben Free.\n\nThen he gizmos ahead from HC 1951 to HC 1983 in order to do the interview\nwith the four.\n\nAfter the interview, he shuttles down to the ground (same flight with\nOzzie?) and deserts on January 24, leaving for the 19th century. Having\naged seven years in two calendar days.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-12-14T07:45:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) FLF: plan B, plan A", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis wrote:\nWhen Whitten \"disappears\" on January 22 (the \"second time\") he doesn't\nimplode (so HC Whitten is correct that duffle coat has not imploded), he\njust goes into the past (say 1943-1951) via the portable gizmo and manages\nto age seven years (the numbers look good) completing his investigation on\nhow he is Ben Free.\n\nThen he gizmos ahead from HC 1951 to HC 1983 in order to do the interview\nwith the four.\n\nAfter the interview, he shuttles down to the ground (same flight with\nOzzie?) and deserts on January 24, leaving for the 19th century. Having\naged seven years in two calendar days." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Okay, I understand your reasoning. It's based primarily on this paragraph:\n\n \"If you're wondering where the general is now, let me assure you he's\ngone. Not vanished because I'm here, but gone to a better time, taking his\nportable gizmo with him. He deduced the location of Free's 'ticket' you see,\nand carried the one he'd brought from nineteen forty-two through it.\"\n\nThe problem I have had with this is that I assumed Whitten's second\ndisappearance--despite what HC Free said above--was involuntary (because the\nfour had just spoken to Whitten on the ground, what, an hour before they saw\nFree on HC?), and that the scenario Free outlined above fit that of the last\ndate of the timeline, which took place two days after he said it. The\npenultimate date in the timeline states that Whitten \"vanishes\" again, which\nis the exact terminology used to describe his disappearance a week earlier.\nThat implies that he \"imploded\", to use your term, not that he simply used a\ngizmo to go somewhen else. Tricky Wolfe.\n\nFor all this to work out, though, requires several things to happen very\nquickly after the B-17 took off. Whitten had to figure out exactly where\nFree's \"ticket\" was, make the decision to use it, collect his portable\ngizmo, and get to Free's ruined house with it before midnight and before Ben\nFree showed up on HC. He didn't have much time to do it in. He also had to\nhave used the gizmo in the ruined house twice, which isn't in the timeline.\nTricky, tricky. But it works.\n\nIt's still debatable where (when) Whitten went when he used Free's ticket\nthat night. With the gizmo secreted in a wall, the controls couldn't be\nreached. It had to be set to a fixed date or span of years, more likely the\nlatter. Free said, above, that Whitten used the wall gizmo, not the\nportable, that night. That would send him back to the 19th century, I think,\nnot somewhere between 1943-1951. And the HC Free was bearded and too\ngrizzled to have been spending much of his recent past with the conveniences\nof modern civilization.\n\nSo his personal chronology still needs some work. The spans of years given\nin Wolfe's timeline total about 68 years, plus the \"several years\" (four?)\nhe lived in the house equal about 72. He was age 82 when he died, so there\nare about 10 years to account for, as I see it.\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }