{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3694", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3694, "subject": "Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "messages": 20, "voices": 13, "first": "2002-12-19T17:23:26+00:00", "last": "2002-12-21T15:57:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "cilluff1 at optonline.net", "address": "cilluff1 at optonline.net" }, "date": "2002-12-19T17:23:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello, all. I was looking for any opinions here, I am just about to finish\nRTTW, and was looking next either to read Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying\nEarth or Wolfe's There are Doors. I'm intrigued as to the Vance work to\nsee how it influenced the Urth novels, but have never read any Vance\nbefore. I also have never read any Wolfe other than the Urth/LS/SS cycle,\nso don't know what to expect from There are Doors. Any recommendations or\nviews on these books from the list?\n\n-- Joe\n\np.s. As to Vironese signoff names I'm leaning towards Shell, which I think\nwould make me a male Chem if I'm not mistaken. My last name, Cilluffo, is\nSicilian and has no direct translation but I've been told is similar to and\nmay be a derivation of the Greek word for shell (although I know no Greek,\nit is all Greek to me as they say!). I hope this isn't taken?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-12-19T17:25:11+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "p.s. As to Vironese signoff names I'm leaning towards Shell, \nwhich I think would make me a male Chem if I'm not mistaken. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, shells are animal parts or products, and so \"Shell\" would \nbe a male bio's name." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "cilluff1 at optonline.net", "address": "cilluff1 at optonline.net" }, "date": "2002-12-19T18:02:02+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Blattid wrote:\np.s. As to Vironese signoff names I'm leaning towards Shell, \nwhich I think would make me a male Chem if I'm not mistaken. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, shells are animal parts or products, and so \"Shell\" would \nbe a male bio's name>>>\n\nJoe/Shell responds, smacking himself in the forehead with the palm of his\nhand:\n\nI guess you are right! Animal by-products (Silk, Blood, Horn) are bio\nnames, how did that slip my mind? I'm glad for the clarification,\nespecially as I don't want to be a chem... : ) " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-12-19T19:52:27+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Shell declares:\nI guess you are right! Animal by-products (Silk, Blood, Horn) are bio\nnames, how did that slip my mind? I'm glad for the clarification,\nespecially as I don't want to be a chem... : ) \n\nCrush interjects:\nYou'll never make the Ayuntamiento with that kind of attitude.\n\n-- Crush\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "cilluff1 at optonline.net", "address": "cilluff1 at optonline.net" }, "date": "2002-12-19T20:06:03+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Crush admonishes:\n\nYou'll never make the Ayuntamiento with that kind of attitude.>>\n\nTrue, I need to start spraypainting \"Shell for Calde\" all over town! : )" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-12-19T20:47:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Joe wrote:\nHello, all. I was looking for any opinions here, I am just about to finish\nRTTW, and was looking next either to read Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying\nEarth or Wolfe's There are Doors." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If you decide to read THERE ARE DOORS then let me know: I'll reread it and\nyou will have someone to talk to.\n\n(It is next on my list, anyway.)\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Veyera", "address": "teflon93 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-12-20T01:45:22+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I just finished reading There Are Doors. I found it to be pretty mundane\nuntil experiencing the usual Wolfean epiphany late, which of course makes me\nwant to reread the whole thing again to figure out what really was going on.\n\nI haven't read Vance; it's on my list as well.\n\nTeflon\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: cilluff1 at optonline.net [mailto:cilluff1 at optonline.net]\nSent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:23 AM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?\n\n\nHello, all. I was looking for any opinions here, I am just about to finish\nRTTW, and was looking next either to read Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying\nEarth or Wolfe's There are Doors. I'm intrigued as to the Vance work to\nsee how it influenced the Urth novels, but have never read any Vance\nbefore. I also have never read any Wolfe other than the Urth/LS/SS cycle,\nso don't know what to expect from There are Doors. Any recommendations or\nviews on these books from the list?\n\n-- Joe\n\np.s. As to Vironese signoff names I'm leaning towards Shell, which I think\nwould make me a male Chem if I'm not mistaken. My last name, Cilluffo, is\nSicilian and has no direct translation but I've been told is similar to and\nmay be a derivation of the Greek word for shell (although I know no Greek,\nit is all Greek to me as they say!). I hope this isn't taken?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2002-12-20T01:37:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" \nIf you decide to read THERE ARE DOORS then let me know: I'll reread it and\nyou will have someone to talk to." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "'There Are Doors' is on my Christmas Wish-List :o) So I may (or may not!) be\nreading it in the New Year.\n\nBest,\n\nG.\n" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Joe Cilluffo", "address": "cilluff1 at optonline.net" }, "date": "2002-12-20T11:55:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I just finished reading There Are Doors. I found it to be pretty mundane\nuntil experiencing the usual Wolfean epiphany late, which of course makes\nme\nwant to reread the whole thing again to figure out what really was going\non.\n\nI haven't read Vance; it's on my list as well." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I'm glad to see if I turn to There are Doors next I'll have some\ncompany on my voyage. The mundane comment was sort of a fear I had moving\nbeyond the Urth universe -- Wolfe did such a spectacular job creating that\nuniverse you have to wonder how many times he can come close to such a feat\nwhen he starts from scratch on a non-Urth world. Still, I think I may make\nThere are Doors my next challenge. Thanks, Teflon.\n\n-- Shell" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2002-12-20T20:14:49+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 12:23 PM 12/19/2002 -0500, you wrote:\nHello, all. I was looking for any opinions here, I am just about to finish\nRTTW, and was looking next either to read Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying\nEarth or Wolfe's There are Doors. I'm intrigued as to the Vance work to\nsee how it influenced the Urth novels, but have never read any Vance\nbefore. I also have never read any Wolfe other than the Urth/LS/SS cycle,\nso don't know what to expect from There are Doors. Any recommendations or\nviews on these books from the list?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My recommendation is that you read Jack Vance first. Wolfe is wonderful, of \ncourse, but it is nice to branch out once in a while. Also, if you like \nVance's _Dying Earth_, you'll probably like the rest of his stuff, and \nthere is quite a bit of it. Then you'll have something to read when you run \nout of Wolfe.\n\nI am a big fan of Jack Vance, but I feel it is only fair to warn you that \nif you are expecting the same intellectual work out that Wolfe gives you, \nyou will be disappointed. But Vance is one of the better writers in SF; he \ncertainly has his own unmistakable voice. If you expect to see a lot of \ndirect influence from _Dying Earth_ to _New/Long/Short Sun_, you may also \nbe disappointed. I would say that the influences are of mood and (very \nbroadly) setting, rather than specific persons, places or things.\n\nBut, if you are willing to except Vance on his own terms and not as \nWolfe-lite, I'll think you'll find a lot to like.\n\n\nWilliam Ansley" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2002-12-20T20:35:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, William Ansley wrote:\nAt 12:23 PM 12/19/2002 -0500, someone wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello, all. I was looking for any opinions here, I am just about to\nfinish RTTW, and was looking next either to read Jack Vance's Tales of\nthe Dying Earth or Wolfe's There are Doors. I'm intrigued as to the\nVance work to see how it influenced the Urth novels, but have never\nread any Vance before. I also have never read any Wolfe other than the\nUrth/LS/SS cycle, I also don't know what to expect from There are\nDoors. Any recommendations or views on these books from the list?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My recommendation is that you read Jack Vance first. Wolfe is wonderful, of\ncourse, but it is nice to branch out once in a while. Also, if you like\nVance's _Dying Earth_, you'll probably like the rest of his stuff, and\nthere is quite a bit of it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am awaiting delivery of my copy of the 44 volume Vance Integral Edition,\nwhich (so it is said) should start arriving in February sometime." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Then you'll have something to read when you\nrun out of Wolfe." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I am a big fan of Jack Vance, but I feel it is only fair to warn you that\nif you are expecting the same intellectual work out that Wolfe gives you,\nyou will be disappointed." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This has not been my experience at all." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " But Vance is one of the better writers in SF; he\ncertainly has his own unmistakable voice." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Vance is one of the great writers of the 20th century. Someday this will\nbe recognized.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-12-20T21:51:21+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 02:35 PM 12/20/2002, you wrote:\nI am awaiting delivery of my copy of the 44 volume Vance Integral Edition,\nwhich (so it is said) should start arriving in February sometime." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Me, too." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I am a big fan of Jack Vance, but I feel it is only fair to warn you that\nif you are expecting the same intellectual work out that Wolfe gives you,\nyou will be disappointed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This has not been my experience at all." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Yes. A different kind of intellectual work, but still profound and \nsubtle -- very subtle." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " But Vance is one of the better writers in SF; he\ncertainly has his own unmistakable voice." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Vance is one of the great writers of the 20th century. Someday this will\nbe recognized." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Amen. Preach it, brother!\n\nPatera Nutria" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": ".\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dave Rolsky", "address": "autarch at urth.org" }, "date": "2002-12-20T23:29:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, cilluff1 at optonline.net wrote:\nHello, all. I was looking for any opinions here, I am just about to finish\nRTTW, and was looking next either to read Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying\nEarth or Wolfe's There are Doors. I'm intrigued as to the Vance work to\nsee how it influenced the Urth novels, but have never read any Vance\nbefore. I also have never read any Wolfe other than the Urth/LS/SS cycle,\nso don't know what to expect from There are Doors. Any recommendations or\nviews on these books from the list?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think you might as well read the Dying Earth stories, since they're a\nquick, easy read. Contrary to some other views on the list, I think Vance\nis a good but definitely not great author. I do think he should get some\ncredit for writing such an entertaining set of stories where the main\ncharacter in most of them (Cugel) is a completely unlikeable bastard ;)\n\n\nHmm, I don't have a Vironese name but I think I do win for most Wolfe-ish\nemail address ;)\n\n\n-dave\n\n/*==================\nwww.urth.org\nwe await the New Sun\n==================*/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-12-20T23:51:02+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 05:29 PM 12/20/2002, Dave R. wrote:\nI think you might as well read the Dying Earth stories, since they're a\nquick, easy read. Contrary to some other views on the list, I think Vance\nis a good but definitely not great author. I do think he should get some\ncredit for writing such an entertaining set of stories where the main\ncharacter in most of them (Cugel) is a completely unlikeable bastard ;)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " The Cugel stories are in the tradition of \"picaresque tales\" \n(tales about rascals) and we've seen very few in recent times, though they \nwere common in Spain in the 16th c. You're supposed to both like and \ndisdain Cugel, and that's the strength of a picaresque tale, which exposes \nthe attractiveness of wicked behavior and makes us feel the humanity of \neven wicked people, all the while entertaining us humorously and indirectly \nshowing us that wickedness is .. well .. wicked. It's a kind of realistic + \nhumorous moral tale that is hard to pull off, and Vance does it brilliantly.\n Whether on thinks Vance is \"great\" or not, the Cugel tales are \ndeft and exquisite exemplars of a neglected genre of Western literature.\n\nNutria" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-12-21T00:04:11+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Um, I disagree. The original picaresque novels did not have the grace of\na fantastic **deus ex machina** every three paragraphs.\n\nLove Vance, hate THE DYING EARTH (except the first novel)\n\n\n,nitc od\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"James Jordan\" \nTo: \nSent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:51 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?\nAt 05:29 PM 12/20/2002, Dave R. wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think you might as well read the Dying Earth stories, since they're a\nquick, easy read. Contrary to some other views on the list, I think\nVance\nis a good but definitely not great author. I do think he should get some\ncredit for writing such an entertaining set of stories where the main\ncharacter in most of them (Cugel) is a completely unlikeable bastard ;)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " The Cugel stories are in the tradition of \"picaresque tales\"\n(tales about rascals) and we've seen very few in recent times, though they\nwere common in Spain in the 16th c. You're supposed to both like and\ndisdain Cugel, and that's the strength of a picaresque tale, which exposes\nthe attractiveness of wicked behavior and makes us feel the humanity of\neven wicked people, all the while entertaining us humorously and\nindirectly\nshowing us that wickedness is .. well .. wicked. It's a kind of realistic\n+\nhumorous moral tale that is hard to pull off, and Vance does it\nbrilliantly.\n Whether on thinks Vance is \"great\" or not, the Cugel tales are\ndeft and exquisite exemplars of a neglected genre of Western literature.\n\nNutria\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2002-12-21T02:00:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Rat rote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " The Cugel stories are in the tradition of \"picaresque tales\"\n(tales about rascals) and we've seen very few in recent times, though they\nwere common in Spain in the 16th c. You're supposed to both like and\ndisdain Cugel, and that's the strength of a picaresque tale, which exposes\nthe attractiveness of wicked behavior and makes us feel the humanity of\neven wicked people, all the while entertaining us humorously and\nindirectly\nshowing us that wickedness is .. well .. wicked. It's a kind of realistic\n+\nhumorous moral tale that is hard to pull off, and Vance does it\nbrilliantly.\n Whether on thinks Vance is \"great\" or not, the Cugel tales are\ndeft and exquisite exemplars of a neglected genre of Western literature." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh Ratty, picaresque tales are very much with us today! Without even using\nmy waning brain power, I'm thinking -Tom Jones-(and then the movie), Felix\nKrull-, -On the Road- and a zillion Hollywood \"road movies\" including the\ngreat -Thelma and Louise-, movies that Jack Nicholson inhabits, with -Easy\nRider- only the first of them. It's become a very American form, though the\nIrish -The Ginger Man- de rigueur in my college days, was another one. And\non and on. Picaresque doesn't really mean rascally, it's more an unplotted\ntale that moves from adventure to adventure without much formal structure.\nBut rascally helps! And the Cugel stories fit perfectly, though most of\nVance is a bit more plotted. Let's see, in sf (which I'm less familiar with\nthan some of you) Pangborn's -Davy-, some of Delaney I think, the Fafyrd and\nMouser stories if they're thought of as a narrative (maybe that doesn't\ncount, but it almost does). Nearly everyone here can probably improve on\nthat list.\n\nFor people planning to dive into Vance, let me remind you that our own\nmantis has written a useful (and cheap) guide that you can find by going to\nthe website marked in his sig.\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T03:17:17+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think There Are Doors is Wolfe's most underrated book, but it's undeniably\na very strange reading experience. It's probably his most somber book in\ntone, if not in plot. And if you're looking for the sort of intricately\ndetailed world found in the NS/LS/SS books, you won't find it here; you'd\nprobably be better off with the Soldier books (though it's been a long time\nsince I read them), or with The Dying Earth.\n\nI'm not a huge Vance fan, but I'm probably in the minority in that respect\non this list. Wolfe has praised The Dying Earth (the first book) very\nhighly; I suspect that if you asked him, he'd tell you to read that first.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T03:17:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 12/19/02 7:45 PM, Jeff Veyera at teflon93 at cox.net wrote:\nI just finished reading There Are Doors. I found it to be pretty mundane\nuntil experiencing the usual Wolfean epiphany late, which of course makes me\nwant to reread the whole thing again to figure out what really was going on." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm curious; what was your epiphany? I had an epiphany of a sort while\npondering TAD, but I don't know whether it was the same as yours.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T14:51:46+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 08:00 PM 12/20/2002, the Slime wrote:\nOh Ratty, picaresque tales are very much with us today! Without even using\nmy waning brain power, I'm thinking -Tom Jones-(and then the movie), Felix\nKrull-, -On the Road- and a zillion Hollywood \"road movies\" including the\ngreat -Thelma and Louise-, movies that Jack Nicholson inhabits, with -Easy\nRider- only the first of them. It's become a very American form, though the\nIrish -The Ginger Man- de rigueur in my college days, was another one. And\non and on. Picaresque doesn't really mean rascally, it's more an unplotted\ntale that moves from adventure to adventure without much formal structure.\nBut rascally helps! And the Cugel stories fit perfectly, though most of\nVance is a bit more plotted. Let's see, in sf (which I'm less familiar with\nthan some of you) Pangborn's -Davy-, some of Delaney I think, the Fafyrd and\nMouser stories if they're thought of as a narrative (maybe that doesn't\ncount, but it almost does). Nearly everyone here can probably improve on\nthat list." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " I won't argue that picaresque tales are not still around. I'm \nhappy to be corrected.\n However: \"The word picaresque derives from the Spanish picaro, \nwhich means rascal or crafty good-for-nothing\" (Michael Alpert, \nintroduction [p.7] to *Two Spanish Picaresque Novels*, pub. by Penguin.) \n*Tom Jones* is a decent example, from the same historical period (roughly).\n But that's just a detail.\n\nNutria" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T15:57:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jack Vance or There are Doors?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, James Jordan wrote:\nAt 08:00 PM 12/20/2002, the Slime wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Oh Ratty, picaresque tales are very much with us today! Without even\nusing my waning brain power, I'm thinking -Tom Jones-(and then the\nmovie) [....]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I won't argue that picaresque tales are not still around. I'm\nhappy to be corrected.\n However: \"The word picaresque derives from the Spanish picaro,\nwhich means rascal or crafty good-for-nothing\" (Michael Alpert,\nintroduction [p.7] to *Two Spanish Picaresque Novels*, pub. by Penguin.)\n*Tom Jones* is a decent example, from the same historical period (roughly)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I really like 'Barry Lindon'. My favorite Kubrick picture also." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " But that's just a detail." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You guys are *really* cute when you get to sniping at each other.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] } ] }