{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3700", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3700, "subject": "Quadrifons & Juturna", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-12-21T02:57:14+00:00", "last": "2002-12-21T16:05:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T02:57:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Quadrifons & Juturna", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Did anybody ever work out what the deal with Quadrifons is? Going back thru the archives, I see suggestions that Quadrifons is the name of a cherub. I'm sure that's true, but I'm also sure that the more relevant association is with Janus, in his four-faced aspect - Janus Quadrifons. After all, the text describes Quadrifons as \"the god of doors and crossroads, and much else\", which sounds pretty much like Janus to me. \n\nAssuming the connection with Janus is intended, why \"Quadrifons\" rather than the more usual \"Bifrons\"? \n\nJanus was married to the nymph Juturna, the goddess of springs and wells. Wolfe presumably knows this, but what's it supposed to mean? Like all of these speculations, anything you can make of it is based on the flimsiest textual evidence; but I wonder if Juturna is the Undine Scylla and Silk speak with at the end of RTTW; and whether somehow Juturna's interest in Severian stems form this? Dunno! " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T14:53:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Quadrifons & Juturna", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 08:57 PM 12/20/2002, you wrote:\nDid anybody ever work out what the deal with Quadrifons is? Going back \nthru the archives, I see suggestions that Quadrifons is the name of a \ncherub. I'm sure that's true, but I'm also sure that the more relevant \nassociation is with Janus, in his four-faced aspect - Janus Quadrifons. \nAfter all, the text describes Quadrifons as \"the god of doors and \ncrossroads, and much else\", which sounds pretty much like Janus to me.\n\nAssuming the connection with Janus is intended, why \"Quadrifons\" rather \nthan the more usual \"Bifrons\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Cherubim have four faces. Sphinxes are a one-faced form of the \ncherub. Being cats, they guard crossroads (as you know if you have a cat; \nlook where he/she likes to sit: where he can watch up and down the halls \nand into the rooms). Cherubim guard doors, particularly the door into Eden.\n\nNutria" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Janus was married to the nymph Juturna, the goddess of springs and wells. \nWolfe presumably knows this, but what's it supposed to mean? Like all of \nthese speculations, anything you can make of it is based on the flimsiest \ntextual evidence; but I wonder if Juturna is the Undine Scylla and Silk \nspeak with at the end of RTTW; and whether somehow Juturna's interest in \nSeverian stems form this? Dunno!" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T16:05:57+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Quadrifons & Juturna", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, James Jordan wrote:\nAt 08:57 PM 12/20/2002, you wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Did anybody ever work out what the deal with Quadrifons is? Going back" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Cherubim have four faces. Sphinxes are a one-faced form of the\ncherub. Being cats, they guard crossroads (as you know if you have a cat;\nlook where he/she likes to sit: where he can watch up and down the halls\nand into the rooms). Cherubim guard doors, particularly the door into Eden." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My first thought, which apparently did not occur to GW, was Trimurti (the\nsyncretic Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva being the One God\n(or reasonable facsimile of same) in various Indian religions), Who is\nalways represented with *four* faces rotated ninety degrees from each\nother. There are a number of different readings as to why four faces; the\nmost mundane one is so that three of them will be visible from any point\naround a freestanding idol. Some of the more interesting ones have to do\nwith more-than-three-dimensional geometry (as do some of the more\ninteresting reasons why Indian gods generally have a multiplicity of\nlimbs).\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] } ] }