{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3702", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3702, "subject": "Blue still ain't Ushas", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-12-21T22:42:16+00:00", "last": "2002-12-22T04:25:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2002-12-21T22:42:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blue still ain't Ushas", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I argued, last spring, that Blue is not Ushas. If those arguments weren't\nheeded then, there's no point in repeating them now. Those arguments were\nfrom the text and/or Physics, so I don't know how it can be claimed \"all\nyour reasons for Urth not being Blue AREN'T valid ones\", as was recently\nstated here. Be that as it may, the mass of textual evidence against Blue\nbeing Urth/Ushas overwhelms the theory that it is. I have also argued that\nSilkhorn's astral travel is spatial, not temporal. The only text-based\nargument for astral time-travel that I am aware of is the appearance of Silk\nand Oreb in Salica's story. That is evidence that the *story* was changed,\njust as Fava's story was influenced by Silkhorn, not that the past had been\nchanged.\n\nProponents of the Blue=Urth/Ushas theory have also claimed that the\nNeighbors were far-future descendents of the people who repopulated Urth\nafter it became Ushas. Where the Green Man fits into that evolution, I don't\nknow. At any rate, the text contradicts the theory that the Neighbors were\nsome future evolutionary stage of humanity on Blushas. When Silkhorn went to\nruined Nessus with Rigoglio and others, he spoke to Mora:\n\n------------------------------------\n \"I was trapped in a pit in a ruined city of the Vanished People once,\" I\nremarked to Mora. \"Have I ever told you about that?\"\n She shook her head.\n \"I've been thinking about it, and about the City of the Inhumi on Green.\nThose were ruins left by the Neighbors' ancient race; these were left by\nours, I believe--we are as ancient as they, or nearly.\" (IGJ, 315)\n-------------------------------------\n\nThis means that humans and Neighbors are roughly of equal antiquity, and\nimplies that the Neighbors' race may even be *older* than humankind.\nElsewhere it is stated that humans and Neighbors were molded by the Outsider\nfrom different soils. If the text means anything to this argument, then the\nabove quote is a dagger in the Blushas theory.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Don Doggett", "address": "harlekin at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2002-12-22T04:25:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Blue still ain't Ushas", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "When Silkhorn went to\nruined Nessus with Rigoglio and others, he spoke to Mora:\n\n------------------------------------\n \"I was trapped in a pit in a ruined city of the Vanished People once,\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "remarked to Mora. \"Have I ever told you about that?\"\n She shook her head.\n \"I've been thinking about it, and about the City of the Inhumi on\nGreen.\nThose were ruins left by the Neighbors' ancient race; these were left by\nours, I believe--we are as ancient as they, or nearly.\" (IGJ, 315)\n-------------------------------------\n\nThis means that humans and Neighbors are roughly of equal antiquity, and\nimplies that the Neighbors' race may even be *older* than humankind.\nElsewhere it is stated that humans and Neighbors were molded by the\nOutsider\nfrom different soils. If the text means anything to this argument, then\nthe\nabove quote is a dagger in the Blushas theory.\n\n-Roy" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Don replies:\nSorry Roy, but that dagger just don't cut for me. Silk's opinions on the\norigin or age of the Neighbor's are just as likely to be wrong as right.\nHe's an unreliable narrator. And as for the Quetzal as a late arrival on\nthe Whorl, what exactly does that mean? The Chems were the original beings\non the Whorl, so he could be a late arrival after them, or he could be the\nlast being on the Whorl after everyone else but before it left the Urth\nsystem. It is not the killer it seems to be.\n\nOn another note, I have decided on a Vironese name for myself. It should\nhave been obvious to me. In honor of my favorite literary character, you\nmay or may not address me as\n\nMonkey" } ] } ] }