{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3729", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3729, "subject": "Chras writings; Sappho & Homer", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-12-30T12:54:55+00:00", "last": "2002-12-30T23:05:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2002-12-30T12:54:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chras writings; Sappho & Homer", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No mysteries here, just a little appreciation of Wolfe's craftsmanship.\nThere are two (I think) quotes from the Chras. Writings in RTTW.\n\nNumber One:\n\n\"Though trodden beneath the shepherd's heel,\nThe wild hyacinth blooms on the ground.\"\n\nThe words, but not the sense, are borrowed from a poem of Sappho's on\nmaidenhead & its loss:\n\n\"Like a sweet apple reddening on the high\ntip of the topmost branch and forgotten\nby the pickers-no, beyond their reach.\n\nLike a hyacinth crushed in the mountains\nby shepherds; lying trampled on the earth\nyet blooming purple.\"\n\nMy first observation: Wolfe's version is far better as poetry (in English;\nSappho's no doubt rocks in Greek). My second: the deft way Wolfe plucks an\nimage from its original context and transforms it into his own - something\nhe does constantly.\n\nI think that knowing the origin of the image adds a gloss or a highlight to\none's appreciation - for Sappho is the poetess of love, and the RTTW context\nis surely deeply concerned with Silk's love for Hyacinth. I think that\nSilkHorn's denial up until this point, in the face of all the evidence, is\nplausible only if one sees that acknowledging his Silk identity would\nrequire him also to acknowledge Hyacinth's death. He is in denial, until he\nreads this passage; having read it, Silk emerges, and weeps for her death.\n\nI think the verses have such a powerful effect because they speak directly\nto Silk's image of Hyacinth: constantly abused by men, and damaged by it,\nshe remains beautiful and spirited. It is a subtle alteration of Sappho's\nimage - maidenhead violated, innocence spoiled - but clearly related to it,\na more positive spin.\n\nFor me, this little scene in RTTW is extraordinarily accomplished - deftly\nworking a large emotional and narrative resolution, just by plucking two\nlines from an obscure poem, and giving them a tiny twist.\n\nNumber Two:\n\n(Reading to Olavine.)\n\n\"There, where a fountain's gurgling waters play,\nthey rush to land, and end in feast the day:\nthey feed; then quaff; and now (their hunger fled)\nsigh for their friends and mourn the dead;\nnor cease the tears' till each in slumber shares\nA sweet forgetfulness of human cares.\nNow far the night advances her gloomy reign,\nand setting stars roll down the azure plain:\nAt the voice of Pas wild whirlwinds rise,\nand clouds and double darkness veil the skies.\"\n\nThis is a very slight alteration of a scene from Pope's translation of The\nOdyssey:\n\n\"Then, where a fountain's gurgling waters play,\nThey rush to land, and end in feasts the day:\nThey feed; they quaff; and now (their hunger fled)\nSigh for their friends devour'd, and mourn the dead;\nNor cease the tears' till each in slumber shares\nA sweet forgetfulness of human cares.\nNow far the night advanced her gloomy reign,\nAnd setting stars roll'd down the azure plain:\nWhen at the voice of Jove wild whirlwinds rise,\nAnd clouds and double darkness veil the skies.\"\n\nThe main change is deleting the word \"devour'd\"; this scene occurs after\nOdysseus escapes Scylla and Charybdis, with the loss of some crew-mates\nchomped by Scylla. Apart from this, there is the quaffing *after* feeding,\npresumably to match bread-then-wine; a change to present tense from the\nnarrative past in the penultimate couplet; and the elision of the initial\n\"When\" in the penultimate verse, which must be a deliberate change, because\nSilkHorn emphasizes and glosses the strong colon followed by \"At the voice\nof Pas ...\".\n\nIf I could explain the meaning of this passage in its context to myself as\nwell as I could the previous one, I think I might have \"solved\" the Short\nSun text (to my satisfaction). But at the moment - I dunno ...." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-12-30T19:56:46+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Chras writings; Sappho & Homer", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thank you, Andrew Bollen, for the research on the Chrasmological Writings!\nGood job!\n\nIt reminds me of Charles Dye's work in April 1997, where he traced the\ninfluence of Marcus Aurelius.\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/whorl/archives/v0004/0009.shtml\n\nI find both cases interesting.\n\nSo now we have Marcus Aurelius, Sapho, and Homer as sources.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2002-12-30T21:04:50+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Chras writings; Sappho & Homer", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I must say, this find in Sappho is truly astounding. Thanks!\n\n--Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2002-12-30T23:05:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Chras writings; Sappho & Homer", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mantis kindly wrote:\nThank you, Andrew Bollen, for the research on the Chrasmological Writings!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, no - don't thank me; thank Google! :)" } ] } ] }