{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3742",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3742,
    "subject": "recognition of Typhon",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2003-01-04T23:43:08+00:00",
    "last": "2003-01-05T09:33:44+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2599@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-04T23:43:08+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) recognition of Typhon",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Of course Typhon recognizes Severian.  He says, \"If you kneel before me, the \nNew Sun will kneel before me when he comes.\"  Right after they talk about the \nNew Sun and the Conciliator being the SAME PERSON.  Not only does Typhon know \nSeverian, he knows about the sea powers and already seeks an alliance with \nthem, and he knows about Severian's relic (ostensibly claiming that he knows \nabout it from watching him try to use it on Little Severian - but it doesn't \ndo crap there, does it?  He must know about it from somewhere/when else.)  \nIt's very, very hard to read that scene without believing that Typhon knows \nprecisely who Typhon is, especially with the Concialiator/New Sun/Severian \nconnection made by Typhon himself.\n\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2604@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Roy C. Lackey",
        "address": "rclackey at stic.net"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-05T09:33:44+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) recognition of Typhon",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0301-2599@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\nOf course Typhon recognizes Severian.  He says, \"If you kneel before me,\nthe New Sun will kneel before me when he comes.\"<<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "You put that in quotes. As if it came from the text. It doesn't. Severian's\nentire meeting with Typhon runs from page 184 to page 197 of SWORD,\nTimescape hardback, 170-182 paper. He said no such thing."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Right after they talk about the"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "New Sun and the Conciliator being the SAME PERSON.<<\n\nNope. Typhon never mentioned the New Sun. The closest you can come is that\nSev mentioned him once: \"Autarch, what of the New Sun, if at last he comes?\nWill you be his enemy too, as you were the enemy of the Conciliator?\" Sev\nspeaks as if the New Sun and the Conciliator were _not_ the same person.\nTyphon answered: \"Swear to me, and believe me, when he comes I shall be his\nmaster, and he my most abject slave.\" Then Sev killed him. There was no\nmention of the New Sun during their brief meeting in URTH, either."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Not only does Typhon know Severian, he knows about the sea powers and\nalready seeks an alliance with them,<<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "What he actually said was: \"There are powers in the seas now who would rule.\nThey will become our slaves, and the hordes of the north are theirs.\"\nSlaves, not allies. Typhon's ego would never allow him to share power."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "and he knows about Severian's relic (ostensibly claiming that he knows\nabout it from watching him try to use it on Little Severian - but it doesn't\ndo crap there, does it?  He must know about it from somewhere/when else.)<<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "He \"saw the sacred fire\" of the gem when Sev tried to use it on Little\nSeverian, that's all."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "It's very, very hard to read that scene without believing that Typhon\nknows precisely who Typhon is, especially with the Concialiator/New\nSun/Severian connection made by Typhon himself.<<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Typhon had never heard of the New Sun before Sev said it, and he was dead\nfive seconds after hearing it.\n\n-Roy"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}