Subject: (urth) Qabbalah

From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 00:28:26 +0000

Chris,
         I once tried to run up speculations about the series of worlds in 
the Qabbalah, since Wolfe refers to Yesod and Briah. But I asked him 
directly about this in my interview, and he said that he had just plucked 
these names from the Q without intending anything further, without 
intending a larger spin on the Q universe. I concluded that trying to find 
the sephiroth in these books was, well if you'll pardon me, barking up the 
wrong tree.
         Which is not to dismiss ALL your mooted analogies.
         FWIW.

Nutria

At 01:24 PM 12/31/2002, you wrote:
>Speaking of myth, I have been toying with an idea which I am hoping 
>someone can put me on the right track with (or off the wrong one). The 
>Learned Ones of this list have certainly seen a lot, and I would be 
>surprised if someone hadn't already pursued this in more detail.
>
>I am thinking that *one* way to describe what's going on is that the 
>nature of Yesod is that it is a world of *myths*, and not just a world 
>with myths, but essentially it is the mythical realm and follows mythical 
>rules. It is also one of four distinct stages of creation, of which our 
>physical world is also one. If one traces from the Creator to Creation, 
>just one step short of the physical world is Yetzirah; an "Ur-Earth". 
>Qabbalistically, there are four worlds of creation, starting from Atzilut 
>(which is Nothingness), closest to the creator. The next rung down is 
>*Briah*, whose focus is bringing Something from Nothingness, and whose 
>associated archangel does happen to be Tzadkiel (also associated with 
>Chesed, the sefirot of "Mercy" or giving, which is appropriate). Next down 
>is the world of Yetzirah, the world of Forms (Something from Something) - 
>this is where one might say the myths go to play. I believe this is the 
>stage where the New Sun series takes place; perhaps you could say it is an 
>alternate way of telling the same story that is our universe... The use of 
>the term Yesod (which is the sefirot of "Foundation") could refer to the 
>fact that Yetzirah can be said to correspond to 6 of the lower sefirot 
>taken together, the lowest of which (low being in the direction of 
>creation, away from creator) is Yesod. The world as we know it in our 
>physical sense is Assiah (Completion) and is associated with Malkhut, the 
>"lowest" Sefirot of all (this is a vast oversimplification).
>
>There are numerous things that would seem to go along with an 
>interpretation like this. Talos' play may be a very big hint toward how to 
>look at the overall story.
>
>Another thing which I may pursue in an unrelated (or related way) is the 
>association of Severian with Sammael - the angel often associated with 
>Geburah ("Severity") and I guess you would say the counter-part or 
>counter-balance to Tzadkiel. While these two angels are in opposing 
>spheres, it's important not to read any antagonism into the relationship: 
>the two form a thesis/antithesis pair that is necessary for the process of 
>synthesis. A point of note is that in qabbalah each persistent, named 
>angel is associated with a star - exactly *one* star per angel. The terms 
>in which this was described to me reminded me very heavily of the 
>association of the Conciliator with his New Sun.
>
>If I use this framework, I am as yet uncertain whether to say the Long Sun 
>books take place in Yetzirah or Assiah. Either seems possible. It's 
>maintained by mystics that it's possible for a person in this world to 
>temporarily translate his consciousness to the world of Yetzirah (though 
>no higher than that? not sure about that), which would make it possible 
>for Silk to talk to Severian even from a different realm. An interesting 
>side effect of this is that if that's how the communication takes place, 
>then the difference in time and distance between Silk and Severian becomes 
>completely irrelevant.
>
>I have far more to learn on both of these subjects before I can really do 
>much useful with it - that is, if I'm not running down a blind alley.
>
>Chris
>
>>Roy claims that Typhon knows very little about the conciliator or about
>>flooding.  However, he hints at several things in his appearance in Sword of
>>the Lictor.  He claims that water brings new life and rebirth.  He 
>>understands
>>the role of the conciliator and his idenitity, promising Severian that if he
>>kneels before him, the Conciliator come again will also kneel before him.
>>And
>>what does Severian see when he looks out the eyes of Typhon?  A vast plain of
>>water.  This is what Typhon sees from his mountain, with his false eyes.
>>As for  the idea of the Conciliator was not unknown in Typhon's time - the
>>conciliator was a rewriting of christology - an echo of the promise of a
>>savior that MUST have been extent if Buzz Aldron was extent in that distant
>>future.  The conciliator became meshed with Christ in myth- and of course
>>Typhon knew about that, since he is an allegory of Satan.  He is re-enacting
>>the temptation scene - he knows everything about the conciliator and his
>>mission.  Even if there was no need for a sun before the age of Typhon, there
>>was still need of a spiritual salvation with which the conciliator became
>>associated.  Come now.  How can the memory of Buzz Aldron outlive the memory
>>of Christ?  You really believe that Typhon, the satan figure of the text of
>>New Sun, is ignorant of the role of the savior figure?  He might, after all,
>>have had access to the book of Canog that Dr. Talos must have perused to 
>>write
>>Eschatology and Genesis.  And the whole secret of the future is of course in
>>that text, composed from notes Severian revealed at the time when he meets
>>Typhon in the past and is incarcerated.  If Typhon lived even another year or
>>two, he might have seen that text, with its gnostic eschatology and genesis
>>ripe for his analysis. He might have even tried to use it when he took 
>>all the
>>other writings of ready-made religions and made his whorl.  (if the whorl was
>>already sent, then he still had an immense storehouse of myths that would
>>become inseparable from the story of the Conciliator, who, before the
>>publication of Urth of the New Sun, seemed to be homologous with Jesus 
>>Christ.
>>  Could Sappho and Aurelius outlive the documents of Christ in someplace like
>>Buenos Aires?).
>>
>>Marc Aramini
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>
>
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