{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3745", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3745, "subject": "Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2003-01-06T13:56:24+00:00", "last": "2003-01-06T23:19:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2003-01-06T13:56:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy has a very fixed idea of the Typhon scene in mind - and I admit I am \nguilty (all the time) of paraphrasing. Even in quotes. We should agree to \ndisagree about this scene - I can't read it without thinking that the \nConciliator and the New Sun are equated, no matter how many times I look at \nit, and that Typhon of course recognizes that Severian is both the \nConciliator, and that he is the New Sun, who will kneel before him if Severian \ndoes so. I just can't read it any other way. What's the point of having him \ntempt the \"savior\" figure here if he doesn't understand the importance of \ndeterring him? Isn't there some kind of allegorical resonance here? Doesn't \nSatan know what's up?\n\nNo big deal.\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2003-01-06T15:19:37+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 06/01/2003 13:56:24 maa32 wrote:\nRoy has a very fixed idea of the Typhon scene in mind - and I admit I am\nguilty (all the time) of paraphrasing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Which is unfortunate, the more so for those who might read posts without\nthe text at hand." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Even in quotes." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But that is unforgivable. To do so is duplicitous.\n\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2003-01-06T16:21:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matthew wrote:\n\nOn 06/01/2003 13:56:24 maa32 wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Roy has a very fixed idea of the Typhon scene in mind - and I admit I am\nguilty (all the time) of paraphrasing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Which is unfortunate, the more so for those who might read posts without\nthe text at hand." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Even in quotes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But that is unforgivable. To do so is duplicitous.\n\n\nMatthew" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's a bit harsh. Marc's paraphrase includes some paraphrased reported\nspeech, so he puts it in quotes. It's not like he's faking up a reference or\nsomething. Maybe it'd be helpful if he flagged it as a paraphrase, but it's\nnot that big a deal, I think." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2003-01-06T17:20:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 06/01/2003 16:21:56 Andrew Bollen wrote:\nMatthew wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 06/01/2003 13:56:24 maa32 wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Roy has a very fixed idea of the Typhon scene in mind - and I admit I\nam\nguilty (all the time) of paraphrasing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Which is unfortunate, the more so for those who might read posts\nwithout\nthe text at hand." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " Even in quotes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But that is unforgivable. To do so is duplicitous.\n\n\nMatthew" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's a bit harsh. Marc's paraphrase includes some paraphrased reported\nspeech, so he puts it in quotes. It's not like he's faking up a reference\nor\nsomething. Maybe it'd be helpful if he flagged it as a paraphrase, but\nit's\nnot that big a deal, I think." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc ascribed to Typhon words that are not in the text.\n\nThe use of quotation marks is conventionally to indicate a direct\ncitation.\n\nUnless you propose that we abandon the conventions what was presented to\nus was an interpretation apparently textually supported but for which in\nreality no such text exists.\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-01-06T17:31:06+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think anyone's disputing that Marc's quotes were incorrect. To use \nthe word \"duplicitous\" indicates that he intended to mislead, whereas it \nseems clear that he believed what he put into his post. This is what seems \nharsh." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "But that is unforgivable. To do so is duplicitous.\n\n\nMatthew" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That's a bit harsh. Marc's paraphrase includes some paraphrased reported\nspeech, so he puts it in quotes. It's not like he's faking up a reference\nor\nsomething. Maybe it'd be helpful if he flagged it as a paraphrase, but\nit's\nnot that big a deal, I think." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc ascribed to Typhon words that are not in the text.\n\nThe use of quotation marks is conventionally to indicate a direct\ncitation.\n\nUnless you propose that we abandon the conventions what was presented to\nus was an interpretation apparently textually supported but for which in\nreality no such text exists.\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2003-01-06T23:19:57+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Typhon's scene - (sorry - last time)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Roy has a very fixed idea of the Typhon scene in mind - and \nI admit I am guilty (all the time) of paraphrasing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[...]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Even in quotes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But that is unforgivable. To do so is duplicitous." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, hey, get a grip here. This is parlously close to \nnamecalling ... this is a pretty flame-free sort of a list\nand I, for one, would like for it to stay so.\n\nI might add: it would only be duplicitous if the paraphraser \n_intended_ to deceive the reader into believing that the\nparaphrase was a quote. I don't get the impression Marc\nintended that at all.\n\nIt's a pity we're limited to ASCII here ... in the old days\nof mimeo'd fanzines and such, we had a way cool bit of \ninvented-for-the-purpose punctuation called the \"quasi-quote,\" \nformed by typing the double-inverted-comma character, \nbackspacing, and typing a hyphen in the same place: meaning, \n\"I'm quoting this from memory, so the exact wording may be \nwrong.\" Almost as useful as the interabang (? typed over !)\nfor rhetorical questions and the often-discussed but never\nquite created \"irony mark.\"" } ] } ] }