{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3755", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3755, "subject": "DOORS: The hero's name", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2003-01-12T17:02:46+00:00", "last": "2003-01-14T08:51:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "StoneOx17", "address": "stoneox17 at aol.com" }, "date": "2003-01-12T17:02:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) DOORS: The hero's name", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This question Spectacled Bear asked earlier about the hero's name (Wolfe \nalways refers to him as \"he\") is making me wonder whether something \nstrange is going on. It later becomes clear in TAD that the protagonist's \nlast name really is Green (e.g., the crate he gets is addressed to Mr. \nGreen). \nThe first time it's mentioned, however, the context is as follows. He has \ngone to the downtown mental health center to look for Lara, and he mentions \nto the therapist that Lara's eyes are viridian.\n\n \"Viridan, Mr. . . ?\"\n \"Green -- viridian's a bluish green.\"\n\nLater in the conversation, the therapist calls him Mr. Green, and he wonders \nhow she knew his name. But we eventually discover that she should have \nknown his name anyway, because she was a therapist that he had already \nbeen seeing regularly. However, from the snippet extracted above, it seems \nthat the therapist did not know his name when she first sees him.\n\nI'm wondering whether it is possible that it really was his first time at the \nMental Health Center, and if his name was not originally Green, but that\nsomehow the goddess altered reality so that he would ex post facto be a \nmental patient and thus not be believed (and maybe so that his name would \nbe Green, which fits in well with the winter-spring-renewal-Attis theme)? \n\nThis seems like a lot to be reading into those three dots above, but \nsomething similar happens with his first name. During the \"Lunch with\nLara\" chapter, when he learns that the sea captain's first name was \nWilliam, it seems to be implied, although not explicitly stated, that the \nhero's\nfirst name is also William. But later, at the fight, Lara introduces him as \nAdam K. Green. Adam is a name that our hero comes up with when North\nchecks him in at the Grand Hotel pseudonymously as A. C. Pine, and \nHerr K. is what Klamm has been calling him throughout the book. Also, \nas maybe a little more evidence that he never actually went to the therapist \nbefore the first session in the book, he never seems to recover his memory \nof this, although he does recover his memory of most of the things about \nLara that he forgets after the electroshock treatments. \n\nThe changing of his name fits in quite well with the theme of a man \njettisoning his old life and rededicating it to the goddess, which I believe \nis\nthe central thrust of the book. What do people think? Am I yet another\nfan who has gone off the deep end in overinterpreting?\n\n-- Stone Ox\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Bratt Ian", "address": "ian.bratt at colorado.edu" }, "date": "2003-01-12T19:31:33+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) DOORS: The hero's name", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \"Viridan, Mr. . . ?\"\n \"Green -- viridian's a bluish green.\"\n\nLater in the conversation, the therapist calls him Mr. Green, and he wonders\nhow she knew his name. But we eventually discover that she should have\nknown his name anyway, because she was a therapist that he had already\nbeen seeing regularly. However, from the snippet extracted above, it seems\nthat the therapist did not know his name when she first sees him.\n\nI'm wondering whether it is possible that it really was his first time at the\nMental Health Center, and if his name was not originally Green, but that\nsomehow the goddess altered reality so that he would ex post facto be a\nmental patient and thus not be believed (and maybe so that his name would\nbe Green, which fits in well with the winter-spring-renewal-Attis theme)?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It was not his first time at the Mental Health Center. He had been going\nthere to treat his depression and that is how he met Lora the goddess when\nshe was working as a receptionist. Her name was Lora Masterman. She felt\nsorry for Green and changed her appearence slightly and her name to Lora\nMorgan to allow Green to pick her up in the park. Later, when\nLora breaks off the relationship, she leaves Green's world and has to quit\nher job as secretary. The secretary that replaces her is new and doesn't\nknow Green's name.\n\non page 267:\nLunch with Lora\n\"You started blocking. You forgot -- I mean on the conscious level -- that\nyou were a patient, and that was very bad. You even forgot that we'd met\nin Dr. Nilson's office. You talked about us meeting in the park, because\nwe took that walk during lunch. And now --\"\n\nGreen later accuses Lora of lying and says that she slightly changed her\nappearance from Lora-the-secretary to Lora Morgan and let him pick her up\nin the park. He does, however, admit that Lora was right about the mental\nHealth Center.\n\n\"But you're telling the truth about one thing: I didn't want to admit I'd\nbeen seeing a psychiatrist -- not even to myself. Somebody like that\nwasn't good enough for you -- I knew that.\"\n\n-Insula" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "StoneOx17", "address": "stoneox17 at aol.com" }, "date": "2003-01-13T20:56:25+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) DOORS: The hero's name", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wrote:\n\nI'm wondering whether it is possible that it really was \nhis first time at the Mental Health Center, and if his \nname was not originally Green, but that somehow the \ngoddess altered reality so that he would ex post facto \nbe a mental patient and thus not be believed\n\nInsula replied:\n\nGreen later accuses Lora of lying and says that she \nslightly changed her appearance from Lora-the-secretary \nto Lora Morgan and let him pick her up in the park. \nHe does, however, admit that Lora was right about the \nmental Health Center. \n\nO.K., there goes that theory. But it looks like he didn't\nrealize Lara Morgan was Lora-the-secretary until much\nlater, which makes things a lot clearer to me.\n\nHow does a goddess hold down a full-time job as a \nsecretary anyway? " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Stone Ox\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-01-14T08:51:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) DOORS: The hero's name", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "How does a goddess hold down a full-time job as a\nsecretary anyway?\n--\nStone Ox" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You may find this hard to believe, but I know a goddess who holds down a\nmore-or-less full time job as a secretary for casual moguls, the private\njet-set type. She is a sort of Holly Golightly figure, once married to a\nfamous Hollywood director (and it's no-kidding famous), now subsidized by a\nbigtime (married) financier who is currently in prison (and it's no-kidding\nbigtime), hops over to Italy on odd weekends to hobnob with her clandestine\nrace-car boyfriend. She is, as you would expect, gorgeous. She has exactly\none topic of conversation, herself, but I am always quite fascinated when I\nam with her--goddesses have charisma to burn! She is such a curious,\nold-fashioned figure that I feel quite privileged to know her, even\ncasually.\n\n-alga" } ] } ] }