{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3767",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3767,
    "subject": "C????????? F??????????",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2003-01-17T19:09:37+00:00",
    "last": "2003-01-17T22:40:54+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2688@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Andy Robertson",
        "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-17T19:09:37+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) C????????? F??????????",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The point is, you can, just about,  write CF and not be Christian.\n\nIn the same way that you can, just about,  be a Catholic and not be\nChristian.   :)\n\n\n\nOK, not literally.\n\n\nBut what I mean is that it is a matter of cultural background not religious\nbelief.\n\nCatholicism is deeply connected with Cosmology and physics.\n\nAnd ANTI-Catholicism is even more deeply connected - modern cosmology grew\nout of Catholic theology by opposition and binary fission.   Galileo etc.\n\n\n\nA CASE OF CONSCIENCE would squeak in.   So would BLACK EASTER, which was, of\ncourse, dedicated to CSL.\n\nBlish was an agnostic  BUT he was fascinated by the existential questions\nChristianity (and espescially Catholicism) has grappled with for so long.\n\n\n\nDid I ever tell you of the time I went to look for Lewis' grave in the\nOxford  churchyard he was buried in, and found Blish's?\n\n\n\n----- Original Message -----"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "From: \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" <ddanehy at siebel.com>\nTo: <urth at urth.net>\nSent: Friday, January 17, 2003 6:52 PM\nSubject: RE: (urth) DOORS: The Hero, The Otherworld, The Ending\nOK.  Do you have a better term than \"Catholic fabulation?\"\nIt seems that would resolve our remaining differences."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": ". (H'mmm ... would you include\nA CASE OF CONSCIENCE, or HYPERION?) It seems to me that the\nword \"fabulation\" does that fairly effectively. Or perhaps\n\"Christian Mythopoieic Fantasy,\" which would be accurate but\nugly ..."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2689@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes",
        "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-17T22:40:54+00:00",
      "subject": "RE: (urth) C????????? F??????????",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0301-2688@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "The point is, you can, just about,  write CF and not be Christian."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "By that logic, it shouldn't be Catholic either, in that you\ncan write it and not be a Catholic. (Besides, I don't think\nanyone can really _be_ a Christian ... it's an ideal to attain\nto. Which is sufficient answer to the question of why some\n\"Christians\" behave so badly.))"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Catholicism is deeply connected with Cosmology and physics.\n\nAnd ANTI-Catholicism is even more deeply connected - modern \ncosmology grew out of Catholic theology by opposition and\nbinary fission.  Galileo etc."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "A somewhat overblown story, but point taken ... Certainly\nCatholicism is very deeply connected etc. Someone once\ntold me that you can't be a Catholic and not believe in\nthe literal seven-day creation; I said, \"Oh, then I guess\nthe last half-dozen Popes haven't been Catholics...\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "A CASE OF CONSCIENCE would squeak in.   So would BLACK \nEASTER, which was, of course, dedicated to CSL."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "H'mmm. BE/DAJ don't disguise the demons behind stfnal\nconceits. If you allow such things, then the word\n\"mythopoeic\" sounds better and better to me."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Blish was an agnostic  BUT he was fascinated by the \nexistential questions Christianity (and espescially \nCatholicism) has grappled with for so long."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I believe he converted to the C of E late in life."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Did I ever tell you of the time I went to look for Lewis' \ngrave in the Oxford  churchyard he was buried in, and found Blish's?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "No! I went looking for Lewis' grave also, and got there too\nlate - the gates were locked, and I was leaving England next\nday so couldn't come back. I didn't know Blish was buried \nthere also; now I _must_ go back."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}