{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/377", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 377, "subject": "InsideOut&Down", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-02-17T05:04:00+00:00", "last": "1998-02-17T14:56:13+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.geis.com" }, "date": "1998-02-17T05:04:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) InsideOut&Down", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #7417663 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET00#\n\nNutria,\n\nRe: three universes not just two, and the direction of black holes\nand white holes, well, that's the word from the text from Baldanders.\n\nI understand that you would like to have hell syphoning off Briah,\nbut it just doesn't seem to be working that way. Would you find it\nmore acceptable if the boon of the white fountain from subspace were\nthe reward for the harrowing of hell?\n\nOr, to get very convoluted, what if the \"interior\" of the worldship\nYesod, the place with all the noise and the \"abandon all hope\" sign\nat the front, the place with your scarabs running around, the place\nwhere all the work really gets done (according to the people there,\nwho only go to the \"surface\" for vacations) is actually somehow\na pocket universe, the third universe, the subspace called Abaddon?\nBecause we know that the magic mirrors lead to Yesod; yet we also\nknow that most of the witnessed critters from the magic mirrors are\ndefinitely =not= angelic, suggesting that Yesod contains both angelic\nand demonic . . . (or does it just mean that the mirrors are as\none-way as the black-hole to white-hole teleports--i.e., that\nanything appearing in a magic mirror on Briah must be coming from\nsubspace, anything entering a magic mirror on Briah will enter Yesod?\nWell, if =that= is the case, then how to explain the Fish, one of the\nearliest forms in the magic mirrors?)\n\nThe magic mirrors create an image, an echo, which then causes the\necho object to materialize (since, as they put it and I paraphrase,\n\"a reflection cannot exist without the object it reflects (and the\nobserver seeing).\" I'm bringing this up now because it turns out to\nbe very important with regards to the Hierogrammates: they are the\nechoes of the Hieros; they are struggling to uplift Briahtic humans\nto the level of the Hieros. So that the Briahtic neo-Hieros will, in\nturn, make neo-Hierogrammates.\n\nThe Hieros are not just human, they are optimized humans; they are\ncompleted humans; they are a stage beyond the human race of the Green\nMan (who already seems rather angelic). They made the Hierogrammates\nin their own best image and then either moved upstairs to Yesod+1 or\nmerged with the Increate, or whatever happens.\n\nI don't think that the Hierogrammates are the \"saints\" of previous\nBriah who now act like angels to Briah, I think they really =are=\n\"angels\" in the sense that they are sub-creations, godlike in some\nways but inferior to humans in many crucial ways, for which they\nmust bow to humanity. The \"saints\" of previous Briah would be the\nHieros themselves (and true, having saints manufacture angels out of\nanimals, or gods out of dogs, is theologically odd--unless we include\nsome Hindu stuff along with Jewish mysticism).\n\nRe: white fountain as related to the river that flows from Yesod to\nBriah. Are you referring to the Brook Madregot? I don't think it is\nconnected to the white fountain in the way you seem to be suggesting.\nBut I agree with you that it connects various universes: Yesod, the\ncorridors of time, Briah, the ship Tzadkiel. It is also the\nbanishment place for little (mischivous) Tzadkiel, if you recall.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1998-02-17T14:56:13+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) InsideOut&Down", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Because we know that the magic mirrors lead to Yesod..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do we? My impression was that they lead to other locations on Briath. Jonas\nuses them to return to the stars, Burgandofora (?) laughs at the idea that\nthe ship-sails, acting in the same manner, snatch important personages from\nother worlds. The apports appear to be neither demonic nor angelic. Just odd\n(mortal) creatures from different planets. When the Old Autarch opens the\nmirrored book inthe House Absolute, he shows Severian an image of Tzadkiel,\nbut not necessarily in Yesod.\n\nKieran C.\n\n\nNorth West Labs\nFinisklin Industrial Estate\nSligo\nRepublic of Ireland\n\nTel. +353 71 69441\nFax. +353 71 69451\nemail: kierannwn at tinet.ie" } ] } ] }