{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3778", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3778, "subject": "Reading the Soldier books", "messages": 8, "voices": 4, "first": "2003-01-20T19:04:24+00:00", "last": "2003-01-26T01:11:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-01-20T19:04:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Regarding reading the Soldier books, Nutria wrote:\nYou might want to skim Bulfinch's Mythology before starting in. You've\ngotta know a bit, yea more than a bit, about ancient Greek mythology. And\nif the series continues, you're going to have to know something about\nZoroastrianism also, I suspect.\n\n\nCrush refutes:\nI gotta respectfully disagree with this. This is no more true than that one\nneeds to know a lot about Sun mythology and symbolism to enjoy the \"New Sun\"\nor (the \"Long Sun\"), or to know about world Serpent mythology and classical\nreferences to enjoy the \"Long Sun\".\n\nWhen you read these books you will **want** to find out more about the\nthings you read about there (e.g. Cybele, Spartan culture & history, etc.).\nBut, one might know a decent bit generally about Greek mythology,\nliterature, and history and still find he has plenty to learn while reading\n\"Mist\" and \"Arete.\"\n\nFor reading the Soldier books, I recommend doing what one would do for\nWolfe's other works:\n1. Read the books\n2. Look up the obvious blanks the stories imply to you (or read Graves'\n\"Complete Myths\" from start to finish because this was an important source\nfor this work)\n3. Reread the books\n-- Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2003-01-20T19:13:29+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "James,\n I gotta respectfully defer to your much better advice.\n\nRespectfully,\n\nNutria" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 01:04 PM 1/20/2003, you wrote:\nRegarding reading the Soldier books, Nutria wrote:\nYou might want to skim Bulfinch's Mythology before starting in. You've\ngotta know a bit, yea more than a bit, about ancient Greek mythology. And\nif the series continues, you're going to have to know something about\nZoroastrianism also, I suspect.\n\n\nCrush refutes:\nI gotta respectfully disagree with this. This is no more true than that one\nneeds to know a lot about Sun mythology and symbolism to enjoy the \"New Sun\"\nor (the \"Long Sun\"), or to know about world Serpent mythology and classical\nreferences to enjoy the \"Long Sun\".\n\nWhen you read these books you will **want** to find out more about the\nthings you read about there (e.g. Cybele, Spartan culture & history, etc.).\nBut, one might know a decent bit generally about Greek mythology,\nliterature, and history and still find he has plenty to learn while reading\n\"Mist\" and \"Arete.\"\n\nFor reading the Soldier books, I recommend doing what one would do for\nWolfe's other works:\n1. Read the books\n2. Look up the obvious blanks the stories imply to you (or read Graves'\n\"Complete Myths\" from start to finish because this was an important source\nfor this work)\n3. Reread the books\n-- Crush\n\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-01-20T21:18:55+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For reading the Soldier books, I recommend doing what one would do for\nWolfe's other works:\n1. Read the books\n2. Look up the obvious blanks the stories imply to you (or read Graves'\n\"Complete Myths\" from start to finish because this was an important source\nfor this work)\n3. Reread the books\n\nCrush is responding to his own posts now:\nFor step 2, of course Herodotus' History is also invaluable reading and \"The\nGolden Ass.\"\n\n-- Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2003-01-21T17:10:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, James Wynn wrote:\nI gotta respectfully disagree with this. This is no more true than that one\nneeds to know a lot about Sun mythology and symbolism to enjoy the \"New Sun\"\nor (the \"Long Sun\"), or to know about world Serpent mythology and classical\nreferences to enjoy the \"Long Sun\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree that you probably don't need to know a lot about Greek Myth to\nappreciate the books, but I think you'll find the plot *much* easier to\nfollow if read up a little on the history of the Persian and early\nPeloponnesian wars (especially focusing on the role of Sparta and their\nrelationship with their slaves). I found the one of the major events of\nArete totally incomprehensible until someone clued me in to the historical\nevent it is based on.\n\nHere's a few good links:\n\nhttp://www.atrium-media.com/bibliotheca/greekhistory/thermopylae.html\nhttp://joseph_berrigan.tripod.com/ancientbabylon/id28.html\nhttp://ancienthistory.about.com/library/prm/blevilempired.htm\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-01-21T20:03:46+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Rostrum said:\nI found the one of the major events of\nArete totally incomprehensible until someone clued me in to the historical\nevent it is based on.\n\nCrush urges:\nThe links were nice. Thanks. But as for the Arete event in question, tell\nus! Tell us!\n\n-- Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2003-01-21T21:25:27+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 02:03 PM 1/21/2003, you wrote:\nRostrum said:\nI found the one of the major events of\nArete totally incomprehensible until someone clued me in to the historical\nevent it is based on.\n\nCrush urges:\nThe links were nice. Thanks. But as for the Arete event in question, tell\nus! Tell us!\n\n-- Crush" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I, Nutria, will tell you. It's the scene at the end of the book, which \nhints that the helots were massacred by their Spartan owners, immediately \nafter the Spartans freed them for helping fight in the battle. Which they \nwere. But it's far from clear in the book what is going on. There are even \nmissing pages!\n\nBet I'm right. Anyway, that's the one that stumped me the most.\n\nNutria" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2003-01-24T10:08:59+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Huh.\n\nIt must be confusing to read this stuff without first knowing Herodotos\netc.\n\nI had never thought of that.\n\nJ.\n\n___" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, James Jordan wrote:\nAt 02:03 PM 1/21/2003, you wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Rostrum said:\nI found the one of the major events of\nArete totally incomprehensible until someone clued me in to the historical\nevent it is based on.\n\nCrush urges:\nThe links were nice. Thanks. But as for the Arete event in question, tell\nus! Tell us!\n\n-- Crush" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I, Nutria, will tell you. It's the scene at the end of the book, which\nhints that the helots were massacred by their Spartan owners, immediately\nafter the Spartans freed them for helping fight in the battle. Which they\nwere. But it's far from clear in the book what is going on. There are even\nmissing pages!\n\nBet I'm right. Anyway, that's the one that stumped me the most.\n\nNutria\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2003-01-26T01:11:33+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) Reading the Soldier books", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, James Jordan wrote:\nRostrum said:\nI found the one of the major events of\nArete totally incomprehensible until someone clued me in to the historical\nevent it is based on.\nCrush urges:\nThe links were nice. Thanks. But as for the Arete event in question, tell\nus! Tell us!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I, Nutria, will tell you. It's the scene at the end of the book, which\nhints that the helots were massacred by their Spartan owners, immediately\nafter the Spartans freed them for helping fight in the battle. Which they\nwere. But it's far from clear in the book what is going on. There are even\nmissing pages!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nutria is right, except the scene in question is in the middle of Arete,\nat the end of the Part 1.\n\nSupposedly true history: Spartan slaves were forbidden from touching\nweapons under penalty of death, but the Spartans armed them for the war\nwith the Persians. After the war, to address this contradiction, the\nSpartans pretended they were going to free said slaves, but instead killed\nthem all." } ] } ] }