{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3803",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3803,
    "subject": "no, no - Horn must be the one who is moved",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2003-01-23T20:52:17+00:00",
    "last": "2003-01-23T23:38:36+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2787@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-23T20:52:17+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) no, no - Horn must be the one who is moved",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "There is one problem with Babbie being the one whose soul is transported into \nthe narrator - there is no mechanism.  When Horn goes into Silk, there is a \nvanished person right there.  When Horn goes into Babbie, there is a vanished \nGod right there - \"A tree like there is on green\".  There is nothing to \ntransmit Babbie through that distance.  There has to be something at the \nsenders end - and we have direct textual evidence of that tree above Horn as \nhe sleeps. (Whenever Silk undergoes astral travel, he always has his branch \nstaff made from a tree vine with him, and it becomes very important that he \nlook for it every time he goes or it is taken away).\n\nI really don't understand how you can say that Babbie going into Horn makes \nany more sense than Horn going into Babbie, when it is QUITE clear that the \nnarrators of On Blue's Waters and In Green's Jungles have a very, very \ndifferent outlook on life, and one deals with the past, while one deals with \nthe present and tells the past sometimes in the third person, indicating that \nit happened to someone who seems to be a different person.  What good is \nBabbie except as a receptacle for both Mucor when she wants to get away and \nHorn when he needs a place for his soul?  Remember the couch in the dream of \nHorn's son - there is a couch with eight legs and ten, and someone hiding \nunderneath - this is Babbie, with Horn or Mucor hiding with it (8+2 legs, eh?)\n Babbie is a receptacle, not a paradigm of courage.\n\nOh well.  I think you should believe what you think fits the text the best for \nyou.  At least I know what to believe.\n\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2788@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Andrew Bollen",
        "address": "abollen at internode.on.net"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-23T23:38:36+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) no, no - Horn must be the one who is moved",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0301-2787@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Marc wrote:\nOh well.  I think you should believe what you think fits the text the best\nfor\nyou."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Absolutely! I *like* Horn-into-Babbie, but I think Babbie-into-Horn fits\nbetter."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "There is one problem with Babbie being the one whose soul is transported\ninto\nthe narrator - there is no mechanism."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "But you could say the same thing for Mucor's possessions, Mora/Fava's\npossessions ..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "What good is\nBabbie except as a receptacle for both Mucor when she wants to get away\nand\nHorn when he needs a place for his soul?  ....  Babbie is a receptacle,\nnot a paradigm of courage."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I feel compelled to come to Babbie's defence here. He can (almost) talk, he\ncan man the sweeps, he's undoubtedly brave. SilkHorn says of him: \"He was\nstronger than I, and a great deal braver; and we were there to support each\nother, not to boast of our superiorities.\"  This is just a little before the\ncalling episode, and may be one of Wolfe's little hints."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}