Subject: (urth) DOORS: Tina's origins

From: Spectacled Bear <spectacled.bear at pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:37:26 +0000

The lady in the haberdasher's called Tina a "magic doll", and in
a world with a real goddess that has to be a possibility, as Mantis
suggested. But at lunch with Lora, Green talks about how Tina isn't
really magic, and that Heathkit will sell you a robot and the Air
Force have planes that can fly and fight and land themselves. "I
couldn't build her, and I don't know anybody who could. But somebody
here might be able to, if we put our minds to it." (p270)

Maybe they did?

I know it doesn't work if the time differential is constant.
I know artificial intelligence isn't as easy as it seemed, and it
never seemed very easy - though from the point of view of a mechanical
engineer, in the late Eighties, it might seem possible enough to allow
willing suspension of disbelief. I can believe it, for a story.

But the really interesting question about Tina, that I have not seen
addressed before, is: how does she know about Daddies? For his birthday,
"Didn't Mama and Daddy give you anything?" (p228) Green hasn't seen his
father for years, but Tina says his father still loves him. "I know about
Daddies, though. And you don't." And so on. Where in the world - in which
world - did she learn about Daddies?

Spectacled Bear. 

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:14:03 +0000

>world - did she learn about Daddies?

And just to confuse things further; when they were in the limo Tina said to
Klamm, speaking of Green: "He needs your help, Papa." Klamm matter-of-factly
answers her: "Then he shall haff it. Whatever I can give." (300) Why did
Tina call him "Papa"?

Almost by definition, children in the Otherworld to whom the dolls were
given wouldn't have a daddy. Given the necessarily limited amount of memory
available in a mechanical doll, I don't think it would be expended on a
person the child could never know.

-Roy

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From: Spectacled Bear <spectacled.bear at pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:03:18 +0000

>answers her: "Then he shall haff it. Whatever I can give." (300) Why did

I think she simply recognized him as such - but was it only because he was
acting in a helpful and fatherly manner, or is he really Green's father?
Some versions of the legend of Attis have him being the son of Cybele as
part of a cycle of death and rebirth. This fits with Green having memories
of Billy Hurst's life come back to him. But if all Lara's lovers are Attis
reincarnated, it's hard to see how there can be two of them around at the
same time in Green and Klamm. But if they aren't (and the story really 
doesn't seem to be constructed that way), why does Green feel that
he is remembering a previous life as a sea captain?

>person the child could never know.

That's right. Whereas if it was manufactured here, the manufacturers might
well not be in on the secret of the existence of the Otherworld, and would
program the doll for life in our world.

Spectacled Bear.

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