{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3819",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3819,
    "subject": "OT - RE: (urth) Sign from the fish's belly",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2003-01-28T19:32:49+00:00",
    "last": "2003-01-28T19:32:49+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0301-2854@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Wynn",
        "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-01-28T19:32:49+00:00",
      "subject": "OT - RE: (urth) Sign from the fish's belly",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I recently had a conversation with a friend (an Evangelical Christian) about\nJonah. My friend is the first person I had met to openly sympathize with\nJonah. He was a teenager in New York during the Son of Sam murders. David\nBerkowitz (S of S) has since professed becoming a Born Again Christian. My\nfriend's point was that the people he killed were refused by Berkowitz any\nfurther potential to make such a decision and go to Heaven - but now he's\nsupposedly \"saved\" and forgiven for his murders. My friend doesn't think\nthat is fair.\n\nWhen one considers the cruelty with which the Assyrians gained their Empire\n(and they were **proud** of that cruelty and regularly reminded of it those\nwho resisted them), one can perhaps see Jonah's resistance to seeing them\nforgiven and the slate cleaned.\n\nI must say I like the way \"Jonah\" ends. It is unique in nearly ALL\n\"morality\" literature in that it does not end with the punishment,\nconversion, or reinstatement of the protagonist. It's Jonah's role not to be\na hero, but to be a warning to others.\n\n--Crush\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Tami Whitehead [mailto:razorkittee at yahoo.com]\nSent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:04 PM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) Sign from the fish's belly\n\n...In re-reading the Book of Jonah,\nhowever, I am still of the mind that Jonah just had a\nbad attitude, and wasn't so much concerned with the\nprophecy of Deuteronomy. It is an interesting point\nyou make however, and indeed raises some very\nimportant points concerning Gentile Christianity, and\nthe availability of redemption to non-Hebrews.\nHowever, if the whole Jonah question is to be followed\nthrough, and if this is indeed a semi-serious 'clue'\nto some obscure goings on in a series I haven't read\nyet(wink)I point out the following, as it may have a\nbearing, and again, I leave it to those who more\nqualified to discuss to the matter:\n\nThe Ninevites did not see Jonah come from the fish.\nThe fish spat him out, the Lord spoke to him again,\nand he went to the city saying it would fall in 40\ndays, and *that* was why the King ordered the city to\nfast and repent.\n\n*This* (it says in the Book) really pissed Jonah off,\nand he went to pout in a little booth outside the\ncity, to wait and watch for God to smite them after\nall, and would rather die. God sent a gourd to cover\nhim, which made him glad, then God sent a worm to\nsmite the gourd, which made Jonah want to die again.\n(Maybe Prozac would have helped, hehehe).\n\nSo, at this point, and it is a very short book, God\ntells Jonah, Why be angry about the gourd, and Jonah\nsays he is right to be angry about it. God reminds\nJonah he didn't make the gourd, and it lived only a\nshort time, and compares it to the Ninevites \"Should\nnot I spare the Ninevah, that great city, wherein\nthere are more than sixscore thousand who do not know\ntheir right hand from their left, and also much\ncattle?\"\n\nAnd so ends the book of Jonah, rather like a GW book,\nabruptly, and not at all to our satisfaction, let\nalone Jonah's.\n\nI only point these things out becuase there seems to\nbe much hinging on the sign from the fish, but there\nwas no sign for the Ninevites of a fish, they never\nsaw it--Ninevah was still a 3 days journey from where\nthe fish spat him out. Also, the question of going\nover to the Gentiles or pagans becomes more plain, not\nbeing a result of Isreal's sin in this case, but\nmerely...Mercy? If so, it is a rather 'left-handed'\nmercy--God seems to say, they are stupid folk, but\nhave lots of cattle, so why not save them, or maybe,\nthey are as stupid as cattle...in any case, it doesn't\nseem to be any skin off Isreal's nose. He isn't\nleaving them, merely 'not smiting' someone else.\n\nJonah never really says he hates anyone, or that he is\nill, or that he has something better to do, but his\nattitude of resistance, rebellion and anger is\napparent. He argues with God. He resents God. He pouts\nlike Achilles in his tent. And God can't seem to melt\nand pour it on him that hey, just do what I told you,\nand don't worry who I smite and don't smite.\n\n\nrazorkittee"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}